Apple Quality Control?
Moderator: James Steele
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Hello all,
Just wanted to add a little of what I've experienced when it comes to extended warranty plans...
Working in my spare time from recording and college I repair hundreds of customer's computers a month for a huge retail chain (think yellow and blue, more specifically orange and black). Although I don't see many Macs, I do get to work on all brands of PC and what I can tell you is that no matter who made it or what model - crap will happen. Laptops and desktops both generally have the same amount of hardware issues (excluding their differences, like screens and hinges and batteries), the only difference is that laptops will cost way more to repair than their bulkier counterparts.
I can't tell you how often I have to tell people that their computer with a bad HDD is outside of it's manufacturer's warranty. Yea, it sucks, but when you don't buy the service plan you take the risk. Not the risk of trusting the manufacturer to build a quality product, but the risk that bad things won't (or didn't) happen to your new toy. Who knows if that new *whatever* you bought didn't get dropped 8,000 times on its way to your hands?
I realize that many here can (and do) perform their own computer repairs, but most of the people I deal with don't know how and/or are too lazy to learn. So when the •••• does hit the fan they end up paying more than they would have for the repairs than they would have for the initial cost of the service plan. Since I perform my own repairs it would only cost me the part that went bad (+ shipping and tax), but I do have my own rules for my personal purchases based off what I see go bad with other's products...
1. If there's a REPLACEMENT plan it is completely worth it. Always. I've had several of my own products exchanged for BRAND NEW ones on the spot when they went bad outside the manufacturer's warranty (longest was right before the 3 year replacement plan expiration).
2. SERVICE plans for purchases on items I can't (or don't want to) fix myself. Stuff like LCD monitors or TVs.
3. Anything $300 and up. Cause I'm broke enough and don't want to buy another if mine dies.
This is just my own credo, I don't expect to change anybody's opinions. Extended warranties have saved my ass several times so that's why I buy them. Some of you may be luckier than me and that's awesome, good on you. But I don't want to get screwed like the customers I see every day when a laptop motherboard dies and they end up stuck with expensive options.
Sorry for my first post being so long! Just my thoughts...
Take care,
Greg
Just wanted to add a little of what I've experienced when it comes to extended warranty plans...
Working in my spare time from recording and college I repair hundreds of customer's computers a month for a huge retail chain (think yellow and blue, more specifically orange and black). Although I don't see many Macs, I do get to work on all brands of PC and what I can tell you is that no matter who made it or what model - crap will happen. Laptops and desktops both generally have the same amount of hardware issues (excluding their differences, like screens and hinges and batteries), the only difference is that laptops will cost way more to repair than their bulkier counterparts.
I can't tell you how often I have to tell people that their computer with a bad HDD is outside of it's manufacturer's warranty. Yea, it sucks, but when you don't buy the service plan you take the risk. Not the risk of trusting the manufacturer to build a quality product, but the risk that bad things won't (or didn't) happen to your new toy. Who knows if that new *whatever* you bought didn't get dropped 8,000 times on its way to your hands?
I realize that many here can (and do) perform their own computer repairs, but most of the people I deal with don't know how and/or are too lazy to learn. So when the •••• does hit the fan they end up paying more than they would have for the repairs than they would have for the initial cost of the service plan. Since I perform my own repairs it would only cost me the part that went bad (+ shipping and tax), but I do have my own rules for my personal purchases based off what I see go bad with other's products...
1. If there's a REPLACEMENT plan it is completely worth it. Always. I've had several of my own products exchanged for BRAND NEW ones on the spot when they went bad outside the manufacturer's warranty (longest was right before the 3 year replacement plan expiration).
2. SERVICE plans for purchases on items I can't (or don't want to) fix myself. Stuff like LCD monitors or TVs.
3. Anything $300 and up. Cause I'm broke enough and don't want to buy another if mine dies.
This is just my own credo, I don't expect to change anybody's opinions. Extended warranties have saved my ass several times so that's why I buy them. Some of you may be luckier than me and that's awesome, good on you. But I don't want to get screwed like the customers I see every day when a laptop motherboard dies and they end up stuck with expensive options.
Sorry for my first post being so long! Just my thoughts...
Take care,
Greg
"We are all disgusting, doomed to our dirty little tasks. Eating and farting and scratching and smiling and celebrating holidays." -Bukowski
- James Steele
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Hey Greg... that's an interesting perspective and I'm sure that it makes good sense. I acknowledge in my original post that my gesture was a "futile" one. I have to wonder that with the pressure to bring new products to the market quickly, there's probably no time for people to lug prototypes around for a week or two. Seems like they just have to throw them out there in the real world and hope they thought of everything. For example, the rampant video problem with the first generation G3 dual USB iBook would only manifest itself after they'd been open and closed hundreds or thousands of times before the video problems would occur.
I have to wonder if there's anything in reality like those commercials you see with robots opening and closing car doors, etc. or opening or closing laptops to simulate abuse.
BTW, Isn't it panasonic who makes a Tough Laptop... something that's made to military specs that is meant for use in the battlefield. I'm sure they cost a fortune... far more than a regular laptop and an extended warranty to put it in perspective. "Copy that, Bravo Company... I understand you're pinned down and I'd sure like to help you out with that artillery but I'm repairing permissions right now!"
I have to wonder if there's anything in reality like those commercials you see with robots opening and closing car doors, etc. or opening or closing laptops to simulate abuse.
BTW, Isn't it panasonic who makes a Tough Laptop... something that's made to military specs that is meant for use in the battlefield. I'm sure they cost a fortune... far more than a regular laptop and an extended warranty to put it in perspective. "Copy that, Bravo Company... I understand you're pinned down and I'd sure like to help you out with that artillery but I'm repairing permissions right now!"
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I wish every company had torture test robots. I hate having to go in and re-solder cold joints in fairly new gear just because some mechanical arm fowled up one day. My old Marshall Valvestate kept having different joints go bad so I got fed up and just re-soldered the whole damned thing. Haven't had a problem since.
Holy crap... I did a search for that Panasonic, look at this: http://www.toughbooksales.com/tb_74.asp
I think I actually saw someone at a Chili's working on one of these. It's waterproof so your fajita juices don't get inside. I have to wonder though, How "tough" can a device be with nearly a sq. ft. of liquid crystal display? I'm trying to picture my MacBook with bumpers on it now... they'd have to be white.
Greg
Holy crap... I did a search for that Panasonic, look at this: http://www.toughbooksales.com/tb_74.asp
I think I actually saw someone at a Chili's working on one of these. It's waterproof so your fajita juices don't get inside. I have to wonder though, How "tough" can a device be with nearly a sq. ft. of liquid crystal display? I'm trying to picture my MacBook with bumpers on it now... they'd have to be white.
Greg
"We are all disgusting, doomed to our dirty little tasks. Eating and farting and scratching and smiling and celebrating holidays." -Bukowski
- James Steele
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I mentioned previously that a Toughbook was likely to be less money (much less) that a regular laptop plus the extended warranty. But I suppose if you're going to be working in certain environments, it would make sense or they wouldn' be selling them... Panasonic must have seen a demand. It's interesting that they claim their screen is visible in sunlight. I'd be interested to see that. But yeah, I can see this aimed at people that take them to construction sites or need laptops out in the field, away from power sources even. 8-hour battery life is kind of a cool feature right there.
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Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS Sonoma 14.7.1, DP 11.33, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
Mac Studio M1 Max, 64GB/2TB, MacOS Sonoma 14.7.1, DP 11.33, MOTU 828es, MOTU 24Ai, MOTU MIDI Express XT, UAD-2 TB3 Satellite OCTO, Console 1 Mk2, Avid S3, NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, Red Type B, Millennia HV-3C, Warm Audio WA-2A, AudioScape 76F, Dean guitars, Marshall amps, etc., etc.!
A Power Mac and an Apple 23" Cinema sell for nearly $5000. While they are golden for 12 monthe what do you think it will cost to repair either on month 13? $249 is CHEAP insurance for either a tower or $349 for a MacBook Pro. Just damage that screen and see how much it will cost you.markwayne wrote:I will never purchase an extended warranty on general principle. IMHO a well designed piece of electronic gear that doesn't suffer an individual component failure (which usually occur in the first few months of operation) should last for years and years with reasonable care. Any system that lasts through the initial "burn-in" phase but suffers failure after only a year or two generally indicates poor design.
Wayne
While I stil have a 7100/66AV that I purchased in 1994 and a UMAX clone of the Tower in 1996 and a G3 Desktop that I purchased in 1998 and a G4 Quicksilver 2002 and a Quad G5 in 2005, they all still work. Not the old monitors mind you, but the slowest of them still boot up and run.
I do agree that Apple Quality control is geting worse and having them built mainly on mainland China is proof that they do not care about quality, but so is every other computer manufacturer.
With the current G5 power POP issue going around, I know some folks are going to be without their investment and you do have car insurance don't you?
What Else?
If you're feeling lucky - get insurance. Insurance is, quite simply, a bet made against yourself. i.e. I bet $200 my machine will break this year - if it doesn't break I'm $200 out of pocket - if it breaks I win the jackpot!
James has the right idea - Apple needs to make reliable computers - they have the capability - we just need to stop putting up with less than the best.
James has the right idea - Apple needs to make reliable computers - they have the capability - we just need to stop putting up with less than the best.
27" iMac, MOTU 828mk2, 10.6, DP7, Melodyne etc, etc.
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Apple Care
It is my impression based on experience that things have changed in the quality control department since the manufacturing is not done in Taiwan anymore. I had a problem with my iMac G5 thank god it was within one month of the regular warranty running out. The funny thing is that the video artifacts that I was getting were showing up on brand new Intel models. At the Applestore they replaced my Logic Board for free. Though I would rather buy a new program or sample library with the money I know that the applecare is very valuable should it be needed. Most of the time the extended warranty offered for appliances is a scam but from Apple it just insures that you get top drawer service should you need it.
Motif6 - Mbox2 -Kontakt2 -Dp 4.61 G5 powerbook G4
If you ask me I would never own a laptop because of environmental aspects... Look @ CPU's in automobiles, there AWAYS breaking... Laptops are very prone to environmental variances and Macs are way more sophisticated than a Dell and thats why they break because of the level of sophistication of circuit designs... I've seen PC laptops break too so it just really depends on how thier handled by thier owners...
I have went through 3 iPods since last year due to environmental issues... It had NOTHING to do with Apple, it was a user related problem.. Thank GOD I had Apple Care because it failed when I took it from one extreme environment into another...
If any condensation gets on something, it's going to short out and fail... laptops are VERY prone to these same types of failures. Condensation can form when a temperature difference is imposed so you have to use common sense to keep from these types of problems... really it's almost impossible if you live in a highly varied climate... These are the real reasons to have Apple Care IMO for things that are unavoidable. When I have moved in the past, I put bags of dessicant beads in my Macs just to keep from these types of problems...
I have went through 3 iPods since last year due to environmental issues... It had NOTHING to do with Apple, it was a user related problem.. Thank GOD I had Apple Care because it failed when I took it from one extreme environment into another...
If any condensation gets on something, it's going to short out and fail... laptops are VERY prone to these same types of failures. Condensation can form when a temperature difference is imposed so you have to use common sense to keep from these types of problems... really it's almost impossible if you live in a highly varied climate... These are the real reasons to have Apple Care IMO for things that are unavoidable. When I have moved in the past, I put bags of dessicant beads in my Macs just to keep from these types of problems...