Optimization for Altivec

Jackle · Post by **Jackle** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:15 am

Any story on optimization for Altivec?
Because I really think it will give a boost in performance for
G4 and G5 Macs which have Altivec....
I`ve been waiting for it since they made is OSX compatible.
But have heard no story or even rumors.

Or is it impossible for MOTU to do that with their programming skills ?

mastermix · Post by **mastermix** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:03 am

Disclaimer: I don't work for MOTU or have 'friends' there.

I doubt that MOTU will spend any more time with proprietary
PPC code knowing that they will migrate all future code to
Intel-based hardware...

Intel has secretely announced quad-core processors with
optimized vectorization...so why would any small firm
like MOTU spend their limited development resources to
please a very small base?

I doubt future Altivec work will ever happen...

But.. fcuk..I speak from common sense...
which may not be what necessarily what happens
in the end.. . LOL

Kris..

Jackle · Post by **Jackle** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:10 am

Yeah, I guessed so too.

But also wanted to say, after Apple announcing OSX and
Digital Performer switching to OSX, MOTU had time to optimize
Digital Performer for Altivec. But they didn`t, so I thought they
didn`t have enough knowledge or really good programmers over there.

Thanks for the reply

boonier · Post by **boonier** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:05 am

Jackle wrote:Yeah, I guessed so too.

But also wanted to say, after Apple announcing OSX and
Digital Performer switching to OSX, MOTU had time to optimize
Digital Performer for Altivec. But they didn`t, so I thought they
didn`t have enough knowledge or really good programmers over there.

Thanks for the reply

am I reading this right?

G4s and G5s have altivec that is purpose designed to crunch through high volumes of data, specifically DSP according to the tech notes at Apple, and MOTU didn't even bother to optimize their code to take advantage of this??

No wonder Logic is more cpu efficient. It was optimized for g4 altivec back in version 5.5 (thats 2002/2003).

The closest analogy I can think of is Motu not wanting to make use of the Supercharger that is Altivec, and just waiting for a raw grunt 7 litre V12 engine that guzzles 5 miles to the gallon...

i mean sweet be-jesus!

Jackle · Post by **Jackle** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:17 am

boonier wrote: am I reading this right?

G4s and G5s have altivec that is purpose designed to crunch through high volumes of data, specifically DSP according to the tech notes at Apple, and MOTU didn't even bother to optimize their code to take advantage of this??

No wonder Logic is more cpu efficient. It was optimized for g4 altivec back in version 5.5 (thats 2002/2003).

The closest analogy I can think of is Motu not wanting to make use of the Supercharger that is Altivec, and just waiting for a raw grunt 7 litre V12 engine that guzzles 5 miles to the gallon...

i mean sweet be-jesus!

If I`m right, Motu didn`t optimize Digital Performer for Altivec.
I guess they won`t in the future too, because their busy with the Intel version.
But they had alot of time in the past, since Appple announced OSX and
G4 and G5 Macs with Altivec.
I really think if Digital Performer was optimized for Altivec,
it would run more efficient then it is right now.
Even for the older Mac`s.

The weakest point of Digital Performer is,
optimization for AU-plugins and Altivec, IMHO.
Which leads to lack of performance and non-efficiency.

boonier · Post by **boonier** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:35 am

Jackle wrote:The weakest point of Digital Performer is,
optimization for AU-plugins and Altivec, IMHO.
Which leads to lack of performance and non-efficiency.

well it could certainly make better use of the processor in that case

all the plugins and MAS could be dealt with by the Altivec and the remaining cpu could be used for the gui and MIDI timing. If DP and MAS are fighting for the cpu on the same thread, is it any wonder that we experience drop outs, cpu spikes, and overall sluggishness?

but i guess this is all hearsay, and we have absolutly no proof that they havent optimized. But I'm inclined to agree with you however. It just came as a bit of a surprise to me, as I assumed all applications of this ilk would be optimized for Altivec by now.

boonier · Post by **boonier** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:16 am

my foot is in my mouth

http://www.sciencequest.org/support/com ... acker.html

mastermix · Post by **mastermix** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:39 am

Please note that I was careful with my wording:

"future work for Altivec.."

The fact that DP is Altivec "aware" does not
necessarily mean that it is fully optimized..
the language is flexible here....the work
of marketing and PR folks..

Kris..

Jackle · Post by **Jackle** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:44 am

Yeah, as mastermix says, "Support" and "Optimized" doesn`t mean the same.

"Support" means it works.
"Optimized" means it works, and its efficient.
This is a big difference.
No matter how much it is heavy and non-efficient,
if it works, you could say "it supports ~" .

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:00 am

Hey! Jackle ,
Where did you find DP is not Altivec optimized ?
Aramis

Jackle · Post by **Jackle** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:08 am

Aramis wrote:Hey! Jackle ,
Where did you find DP is not Altivec optimized ?
Aramis

Try asking MOTU. (Ask them if its optimized. Not if it supports altivec.)
The story about DP not being optimized for Altivec has
been around for sometime. Hearing it from friends,
seeing it in a few BB`s. If you could read Japanese
I could send you the URL via PM.
One more thing is, that I couldn`t find anything about
Digital Performer being optimized for Altivec on MOTU`s website.
If Digital Performer was optimized for Altivec, it would be a big sales point.
Look at Kontakt 2, Altiverb etc. These softwares which are
altivec optimized, say they are on their official websites.

baanes · Post by **baanes** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:41 pm

I'm pretty sure DP is altivec optimized. Does it take several times as long as logic to time-stretch audio (FFT analysis benefits more than anything from vectorization)? Logic may be faster, but not several times faster, and much of this advantage comes from tricks like running playback tracks at a higher buffer. MOTU also has no control over the code in plugins it does not ship, so they can't optimize those. Besides, you should be using a program because of its' real world performance, not because of some under-the-hood technology it may or may not have.

emulatorloo · Post by **emulatorloo** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:55 pm

Jackle wrote:Any story on optimization for Altivec?
<snip> Or is it impossible for MOTU to do that with their programming skills ?

from a story back when DP 4 was announced:

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/pressrel.n ... FB001B116C

Support for Apple Computer's new G4 Processor with Velocity Engine

MOTU announced at AES that it is accelerating Digital Performer to take advantage of Apple Computer's new G4-based Power Macintosh computers, equipped with Apple's ground-breaking Velocity Engine vector processing. The Velocity Engine boosts the performance of certain computationally intense operations, such as the DSP processing found in eVerb and many of Digital Performer's other native real-time effects plug-ins. MOTU reports dramatic gains for some plug-ins in the amount of processing available to users.

------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltiVec

AltiVec is a tradename owned solely by Motorola, so the system is also referred to as Velocity Engine by Apple and VMX by IBM.

------------

Jackle · Post by **Jackle** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:33 pm

Thanks for your reply, emulatorloo

Yes I can tell that Digital Performer supports Altivec and
it gives some performance boost.
But it doesn`t say anything about optimization.
I`m not talking about if Digital Performer supports Altivec or not.
But thanks for the info. It was interesting to read

Aramis · Post by **Aramis** » Wed May 24, 2006 4:09 pm

My opinion is that anything Altivec is optimized ....by definition ....

Aramis

MOTUnation.com

Optimization for Altivec

Optimization for Altivec

Re: Optimization for Altivec

Re: Optimization for Altivec