Collecting Data In the Interest of Solving Problems

[Shooshie]

Ok, I'm caught up to here. Everyone's info which appears above this point has been entered into the Excel database. Being the idiot I am, a glutton for punishment, I hereby command the rest of you to heap your info on top of the pile. Ok... I admit. I have no authority to command you. So I'll have to beg. Please, O busy ones. Force me to work more on this. We're just beginning to get somewhere. Out of something like 16,000 registered users, we now have about 16 represented here. That's 1 per every 1000. Kind of like the audience numbers for string quartets.

Am I babbling again? Excel makes me stupid. I can't stand working in Microsoft products. I'd rather be mixing music in DP. So, Good night. I'm going to go to bed, mixing in my dreams.

Go to SYSTEM/LIBRARY/EXTENSIONS, and look for the three MOTU extensions (and/or the extensions for your non-MOTU boxes.) Let me have the VERSION numbers! I need your OS version, computer type and speed, amount of RAM, the problems you've been having, or the stability you've been having. Tell me your plugins, if you have the time. I've got the space in my database; just tell me all you can so we can get to the bottom of these stuck notes and other problems which I don't even have!

[Grigri]

Here I go Shooshie!
Tell me if you need more infos! Thanks for this big job! (Not so creative BTW...)
Grigri

Drivers:
Motu MIDI Driver 1.3.1 Created 12.04.05
Motu Firewire Audio 1.2.5 Created 28.04.05
Motu PCI-Audio 1.0.8 Created 25.04.05

Apps:
DP5
Audio-Unit Manager V1.1
Motu Firewire Console V1.1
Firewire SMPTE Console V1.1
Firewire Cuemix Console V1.1
Motu PCI Audio Console
Motu SMPTE Console
Cuemix Console
GarageBand V2.0.2
Itunes 6.0.4
QuickTime 7.0.4

Mac:
G5 Dual 2.x1.8
Ram 2.25 Go
Bus speed 900 MHz
Start ROM Version 5.1.8f7

Drives:
1 drive SATA 80G splitted in 2x40 (first one is for system and apps)
1 drive SATA internal 250Go for projects
1 drive external SATA through PCI Card 160Go for projects
Lots of external drives (mostly FW400) for backup

System:
OSX 10.4.6
- I use Carbon Copy Cloner often so I feel safe about any updates or bugs.
- I run Tools X often for maintenance purpose
- I run Diskwarrior often (which save me once on a bad drive)


Hardware:
PCI424
Motu 2408 MkI
Motu 2408 MkII
2 x Motu 828 MkI (I use them for external recording, not at home)

Plugs:
Motu stock plugs
Wave-Arts Audio suite (Trackplug, final, Multidynamic, Masterverb)
URS Native A and N
Pluggo free plugs
Aptrigga2
Elemental Audio Inspector (free)

My usage:
Lots of audio recording & mixing
Big Projects (from 16 Trk for small ones to 90 T big ones - and sometimes more...)
Few MIDI (once a month 1 or 8 tracks max)
Few VI (for my fun once in six month...)

My problems:
Right now, none. Installed dp5 and so far so good.

With dp4.61 I had crash when I change the end cycle position while playing and when the wiper was close to the end point. (beach-ball and then MAS turn off)

[philbrown]

Shooshie,
you da man for doing this - much appreciation.

No problems whatsoever on this system:

G5 Dual 2.5 1.5GB RAM Extra internal HD, Firewire 800 card and lots of Firewire drives

MOTU MIDI Driver.kext 1.3.1 Sept. 30 05
MOTUFirewireAudio.kext 1.2.5 July 10, 05 (I don't use 896 on this system but driver is still there)
MOTUPCIAudio.kext 1.0.8 July 22, 05

DP 4.6 July 6, 05
Clockworks 1.51 12/2/03
PCI Audio Console (no version number) Nov 21, 03
Cuemix console (no version number) Nov 21, 03 (never use this)

MTPAV connected via USB
2408 mk 1 - PCI424 (Revision ID: 0x00ff - found in System Profiler - might this matter?)

Plug-ins:
NI Komplete2 (mostly use Reaktor 4.13.001)
Waves Platinum
UAD-1 UltraPak
Sonalksis Compressor
CamelPhat, CamelSpace and Cameleon 5000
Stylus RMX
Trilogy
Elemental Audio Inspector

Other software:
Numerology
Reason3
Live4
Peak
Soundflower
Adobe CS2 creative suite

MTPAV ROM version 2.0.1 I just noticed the MTP ROM version is listed in Clockworks window, right side. Could this be important?? Seems like it, for stuck notes anyway.

This system is super-stable - the best ever. I had a really bad problem with a specific type of file in my work that would create horrible CPU spikes (with the warning box) playing 4 mono tracks with no plugs.
Solution: clear Undo History.

Best to all,
Phil

[emulatorloo]

I did have a period where I had a lot of spikes in DP etc, but during some other troubleshooting I reset my motherboard, and all of that stuff went away.

Loo... could you explain how you reset your motherboard? Maybe a lot of us could use that.


Shooshie

-------------------

Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics/Gigabit Ethernet): Resetting the PMU on the Logic Board

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95037


-------------------

For a G5 -- I don't have one so I've never done this:

How to reset the SMU on a Power Mac G5 (Late 2004) or Power Mac G5 (Late 2005)

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300341

Per that doc, SMU replaced PMU on G5s

-------------------

Something that also helps sometimes when your mac is acting funny - resetting PRAM:

Resetting your Mac's PRAM and NVRAM

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238


--------------------------------------

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Ok, so far a pattern is forming: here's what I've figured out:
Klaus, Billf, Frodo, and I are doing all the work. Everyone else is sitting on their asses.

Conclusion: DP users are either asleep or lazy!

I don't think that is a fair comment. Maybe some of us are actually busy working... and/or prefer NOT to participate in this line of inquiry. Just because we are not responding to your chosen direction does not make us lazy, asleep or 'sitting on our asses.' If we are not "with you" on this quest, it does not mean we are "against" you and it certainly does not mean we are complacent!

[Shooshie]

Fear not, MIDI Life Crisis! That was totally intended in jest. Many apologies for making you feel bad. The idea was to be a little provocative to jar some of you into looking up your information immediately instead of putting it off for later. If I had the opposite effect, then I was clearly in the wrong. Sometimes when I pull an all-nighter like that, I get a little punchy, and start entertaining myself with jokes that make ME laugh, not thinking about whether anyone else is laughing.

Truce? I knew you'd understand. Now, send me your info!

Shooshie

[williemyers]

UNSTABLE SYSTEM

••• MOTU MIDI Driver.kext: v. 1.3.2
••• MOTU FireWireAudio.kext: n/a
••• MOTU PCIAudio.kext:n/a

••• Clockworks : removed

••• Console : all Console apps/plugs removed


My system:
-10.4.6
-Dual 1.25 GHz G4 with 2 GB RAM
Hardware:
-MTP-AV (USB) networked to MTP-AVSerial
-Audio Interfaces:
--Digi 002r
Apps;
-DP5.0
-PTools LE 7.1
-Sibeilius 4.1
-MOTU Symphonic Instrument
-Mach Five
-Finale 2006

(more) STABLE SYSTEM running on a seperate partition
((diffs from above noted by *))

*••• MOTU MIDI Driver.kext: v. 1.2.4
••• MOTU FireWireAudio.kext: n/a
••• MOTU PCIAudio.kext:n/a

••• Clockworks : removed

••• Console : all Console apps/plugs removed


My system:
*-10.3.9
-Dual 1.25 GHz G4 with 2 GB RAM
Hardware:
-MTP-AV (USB) networked to MTP-AVSerial
-Audio Interfaces:
--Digi 002r
Apps;
*-DP4.1.2



btw, Shooshie wrote:

"Ok, so far a pattern is forming: here's what I've figured out:
Klaus, Billf, Frodo, and I are doing all the work. Everyone else is sitting on their asses. Conclusion: DP users are either asleep or lazy! "


perhaps you should have considered a third possibile conclusion...DP users are either asleep, lazy or...BUSY!!

[Shooshie]

DP users are either asleep, lazy or...BUSY!!

I think I should have put a winkie thing beside it ";)" to imply that it was only in jest--a bit of ribbing to get people's attention. It sure DID; just not as I intended!

Thanks for the information. I'll get it loaded up and added to the rest!


Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I think I should have put a winkie thing beside it••¦

Not a big deal, really. Probably of greater concern to me is that DP 5 has a new set of bugs (non-playing transports for one*) that MOTU has either not seen in beta testing or has chosen to ignore in the hope it is not too commonly experienced.

The hanging MIDI thing is in 4.61 (first version I noticed it in I believe) and DP 5. All notes off does not always silence the notes BUT if you move to another program (Finale in my case) and send the same command, all notes do, in fact go off.

Going back to the now unstable DP after using Finale to silence your rig shows that subsequently sent notes still hang. Since DP did not send all notes off, it is not recognizing the Finale command. Only a restart and sometimes a logout-login seems to silence them. A reboot is probably the safest bet.

That said, here is the configs.

MOTU MIDI driver 1.3.1
MIDI Express 128 (on a very long USB cable)
DP 4.61 / DP 5
OS X.4.6
MAudio FW Driver (MIDI IN/OUT)

All MIDI modules will hang (KurtzW, Roland, Emu, Korg)

Here's another observation and to me the MOST telling: The notes don't just hang in the middle of a phrase during playback, they ONLY hang when stopping or pausing the transport. That indicates to me that DP SHOULD BE sending ALL NOTES OFF whenever the transport is stopped. If I were a programmer, I would look seriously at the code that is called at those moments and the ALL NOTES OFF code when using the CMD-! keystroke.

*- Maybe the non-playing transports is a further instance of the bad code in the transport commands in DP.

Hmmm••¦

[RROY]

MOTU FW audio.kext 1.01 , MOTU MIDI driver.kext 1.3.1 ,MOTUPCIAuaio.kext 1.0.8 . Dual 1 gig Quicksilver,1.5 gigs ram ,OS 10.39 ,2408 mk3, MIDI Timepiece AV USB , DP 4.61 ,Tranzport, Triton LE, Autotune 4 .Waves 4, Battery 2, MSI 1.1, MACH 5, Easwest Symphonic Silver Edition, Cronox 3, RM IV. Everything fairly stable here. Have had the dreaded stuck MIDI note thing , though not lately. Clicks in merged audio files problem has happened , but maybe only 3 times out of hundreds of merges. One other weird thing has happened about 3 or 4 times ,when using the keyboard command for, clear clipping indicaters at least one audio track has output odd digital noise temporarily.This seems totally random and thankfully , very seldom.

[pencilina]

Swooshie,

I had reported my sytem before as stable but noooooo. I guess I didn't knock on wood hard enough. I'm so pissed. I got stuck notes like crazy while working last night. VI keys that would stay down- that would not reset themselves. Today isn't as bad. Maybe my computer is aware of this week's deadline and is being sympathetic.

dp5, 10.3.9, g5x1.8. midiexpress128, pci 424 2408mk1 system has Motu MIDI Driver.plugin vers 1.2.4d2. 2 MIDI'd Giga/VI PCs. No backgrounds apps. Waves ren maxx. Pluggo.

I'm wondering how I could get my hands on that 1.3.1 MIDI driver as motu's site only has 1.3.2

MOTU should pay you for doing their troubleshooting and damage control or give you free products. What a concept. Maybe we could come up with a name for it. I dunno. "Beta Testing" has a nice ring to it.

[kelldammit]

here's mine:
g4 pb 1.67ghz, 1gb ram, stock 100g hd, 128mb video.
external lacie d2 "tape reel" drive (usually fw800).
no motu kexts (traveler not installed currently, but have latest/greatest drivers)
july '05 novation kext (using x-station25 for this rig at the moment)
no background apps, beyond pace, methinks, and dashboard is disabled.
osx 10.4.6, dp4.61 (5 coming soon!)
wave arts powersuite5, elemental audio plugs (all of 'em), luxonix lfx1310 v1.1.5, nomad freebies, ssl lmc 1.1.3 freebie.
rp blue 1.5.1, luxonix ravity 1.4.3, ultimate analog 1.0.2, msi, amplitube live. until very recently ni komplete2/battery2.

no problems to speak of, beyond some cpu spiking, and ironing out what buffer settings to use for the novation. i would see spiking with the traveler as well, though not so frequently. mostly seems to happen with ultimate analog, though it's a cpu hog anyway...
also, i have the studio stuff set up as a separate user/admin account, with internet/daily stuff on a separate account.

fyi: the ONLY time i've ever seen stuck MIDI notes is when i had a focusrite saffire, and used a yamaha s03 via the saffire's MIDI i/o. it usually happened with fast flurries of notes. this was using ni komplete2...i've used a couple usb controllers (likewise with nik2), and have not had the issue.

also, bill, you mentioned you have a long usb cable...is there a hub inline? i don't think usb is supposed to reach more than 10' without a repeater/hub?

kell

[williemyers]

guys, in an effort to try and simplfy and focus on this problem, a couple of thoughts...

If you saw my earlier posts about my rig and my problems, you'd recall that I'm running *NO* audio when I'm getting note hangs & MIDI bombs. No VI's, no audio tracks, nada . Not unitl I add a stereo track to mix to. (see below)
So I'm thinking that if the problem lies within DP not sending a "note off" when it should, it wouldn't matter whether it was not sending it to a VI or not sending it to a MIDI box via the interface. If it's not sending it...it's not sending it! That *seems* to be my experience.

Also, unlike a number of folks have suggested here, I get MIDI hangs in the middle of playback. I also get them - as others have mentioned - by stopping in mid seq. or mid-note, but I still get them in mid-playback. That's what craps up my efforts to lay off a 2 mix. So, based on my own experiences, I'm leaning heavily toward the idea that Dp is, for whatever reason, *not* sending all note-off's to anywhere - - audio of MIDI. BTW, it *seems* to happen ususally after 4 or 5 hours of heavy DP usage.

The (see below) above was a thought that I just had. I *wonder* if I had a seq. that was hanging and I ran a copy of it in "MIDI Only" instead of MAS. If it ran smoothly withouts hangs or bombs, that would indicate that the problem might lie with the frequently-dodgy-in-the-past Motu Audio System.

hmmm......

[Shooshie]

guys, in an effort to try and simplfy and focus on this problem, a couple of thoughts...

If you saw my earlier posts about my rig and my problems, you'd recall that I'm running *NO* audio when I'm getting note hangs & MIDI bombs. No VI's, no audio tracks, nada . Not unitl I add a stereo track to mix to. (see below)
So I'm thinking that if the problem lies within DP not sending a "note off" when it should, it wouldn't matter whether it was not sending it to a VI or not sending it to a MIDI box via the interface. If it's not sending it...it's not sending it! That *seems* to be my experience.

Also, unlike a number of folks have suggested here, I get MIDI hangs in the middle of playback. I also get them - as others have mentioned - by stopping in mid seq. or mid-note, but I still get them in mid-playback. That's what craps up my efforts to lay off a 2 mix. So, based on my own experiences, I'm leaning heavily toward the idea that Dp is, for whatever reason, *not* sending all note-off's to anywhere - - audio of MIDI. BTW, it *seems* to happen ususally after 4 or 5 hours of heavy DP usage.

The (see below) above was a thought that I just had. I *wonder* if I had a seq. that was hanging and I ran a copy of it in "MIDI Only" instead of MAS. If it ran smoothly withouts hangs or bombs, that would indicate that the problem might lie with the frequently-dodgy-in-the-past Motu Audio System.

hmmm......

I hear what you're saying, which is why I chose to focus on the drivers. The MIDI driver is the one with a clear correlation between versions and stuck notes. If you're having stuck notes, back down to MIDI driver 1.3.1 and see if that helps. I'm going to have to post a copy of it somewhere if MOTU doesn't have it, because that seems to be what is helping some people.


Shooshie

[pencilina]

Hi Swooshie,
did 1.3.1 get installed with a particuar version or was that a DL from their site? I'm wondering if I might have it.

Thanks