sounds fine in DP, no so fine in Pro Tools

frontierfran · Post by **frontierfran** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:55 am

ok ok...before im asked...im only doing editing in Pro Tools because I am on a tight deadline, and since im still a DP novice i need to get the edits done in PT quick--a program I know very well.

Is it POSSIBLE that the music I tracked in DP sounds RIDICULOUSLY better in DP than it does when I brought it into PT? I am hearing artifacts all over (I think), and am concerned.

could this be:

1. the conversion from Sound Designer II files to WAV "lost" something?
2. the PT hardware, in this case an MBOX, just pales in comparison to my MOTU 24 i/o?
3. DP rules. PT sucks. period
4. all of the above

any thoughts? thanks people!

doodles · Post by **doodles** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:58 am

if it's ridiculously different, then something's not right.

there's sometimes a (arguably) sonic difference in terms of tops, bottoms, etc, but even that's debatable. are you sample rate converting, etc?

ryst · Post by **ryst** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:04 am

frontierfran wrote:ok ok...before im asked...im only doing editing in Pro Tools because I am on a tight deadline, and since im still a DP novice i need to get the edits done in PT quick--a program I know very well.

Is it POSSIBLE that the music I tracked in DP sounds RIDICULOUSLY better in DP than it does when I brought it into PT? I am hearing artifacts all over (I think), and am concerned.

could this be:

1. the conversion from Sound Designer II files to WAV "lost" something?
2. the PT hardware, in this case an MBOX, just pales in comparison to my MOTU 24 i/o?
3. DP rules. PT sucks. period
4. all of the above

any thoughts? thanks people!

Why are you converting from SDII to WAV? Doesn't PT open both? I would bypass any file conversion and just go from SDII(DP) to SDII(PT) or save as WAV in DP and open WAV in PT and see if you are still having problems. Also, the files are just files and you should hear 'too much" of a difference in the output of the MBOX to the 24i. Are both programs set at the same sample rate and bit depth?

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:05 am

I constantly exchange files between DP/Traveler and PT/Mbox 2 on the same Mac here, and all seems fine...

So I would also say check the sample rates and bit depths on both projects/sessions.

Stephen

frontierfran · Post by **frontierfran** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:12 am

yep, both session are 44.1/24 bit. i wouldve liked to record at a higher sample rate, but the producer we're working with wanted them at 44.1 for some reason...says he always works in that rate from the projects he "gets from LA".

its not RIDICULOUSLY different...just not nearly as rounded and full sounding.

on a byte/bit level, is there a lot going on when converting from SD II to wav? any compression occurring?

ryst · Post by **ryst** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:15 am

frontierfran wrote:yep, both session are 44.1/24 bit. i wouldve liked to record at a higher sample rate, but the producer we're working with wanted them at 44.1 for some reason...says he always works in that rate from the projects he "gets from LA".

its not RIDICULOUSLY different...just not nearly as rounded and full sounding.

on a byte/bit level, is there a lot going on when converting from SD II to wav? any compression occurring?

There shouldn't be. Why are you converting from SDII to WAV? Doesn't PT open both? I would bypass any file conversion and just go from SDII(DP) to SDII(PT) or save as WAV in DP and open WAV in PT and see if you are still having problems.

frontierfran · Post by **frontierfran** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:27 am

well, I converted simply because I didnt know better. ive always worked in PT, and never with SDII files in DP. I did a TON of editing last night...about 6 hours worth to 3 songs. the thought of doing it again frightens me...haha...
if there is nothing lost going from SDII to WAV, then ill leave it. i didnt want to do a lot of converting...

also, im not even sure if i even converted at all to be totally honest.
when i opened a new session in PT, and went to File-->import audio to track, then selected all my audio files from the DP session folder, then added them all and clicked Convert all button, I assumed PT brought them in as WAV's.
this IS the case, right?

donaldm · Post by **donaldm** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:41 am

I transfer things between PT7 and DP4.5 all the time with the method you described above. I export files from DP in the wav format (48/24) and haven't noticed any difference between the applications.

the term "fuller" is pretty subjective do you have any other adjective that might describe the difference you are hearing?

daveyboy · Post by **daveyboy** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:46 am

Can you use the spdif outs of the mbox so that you're not heaering the converters? My guess is that this is the difference. I did a whole crazy shootout on my system between DP, PT and Logic using the same song, same mixer settings, etc and there was no difference in quality, BUT, I didn't convert the audio files, kept them at SDII. You would hear differences in the D/A conversion though. A test you could do is a bounce to disk in both systems of something simple in the mix , keeping everything identical (no plugs, same volume and pan settings) and then listen to see if there really is a difference.

btmgmusic · Post by **btmgmusic** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:52 am

"ridiculously different" ?? What kind of sonic artifacts are you hearing in PT? Or are you saying the mix just sounds dull thru the Mbox? I am not up to any benchmark arguments here, but I am quite certain that the AD/DA converters on the 24 i/o sound better than the Mbox.(It better sound better since the MOTU 24i/o also costs 2x the price of Mbox!!)

However, in general, neither MOTU or Digi hardware should give you this kind of drastic differences in sonic results, unless something is wrong (bad sync source, wrong sample rate, slow or too fragmented HD, too low or too high playback buffer settings, etc). I would first look into those crucial settings.
If there is no problem found there, I would then try switching your sync source to a dedicated external low-jitter clock. Trust me, this will make ANY interface sound better.
I use DP and PT, both MOTU audio and MIDI interfaces and Digidesign Hardware hand-in-hand with great results. I currently use Digi 192 i/o and it sounds fantastic with DP - honestly much better than any MOTU interface I have ever owned or currently own. (I also sync all my gear to external clock by Antelope ISOCHRONE OCX, including a MOTU Traveler that sounds excellent with it). My 2 cents!

Jack
BTMGMUSIC

Is it POSSIBLE that the music I tracked in DP sounds RIDICULOUSLY better in DP than it does when I brought it into PT? I am hearing artifacts all over (I think), and am concerned.

could this be:

1. the conversion from Sound Designer II files to WAV "lost" something?
2. the PT hardware, in this case an MBOX, just pales in comparison to my MOTU 24 i/o?
3. DP rules. PT sucks. period
4. all of the above

any thoughts? thanks people![/quote]

frontierfran · Post by **frontierfran** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:12 am

I didnt know I was using any converters in the MBOX except for monitoring....something I most DEFINITELY want to avoid here in regards to the files themselves. I just want to bring the audio files into PT to edit, since ediitng them in DP is not going to be time effective right now. I plan on doing everything in DP in the future when I know the app better.

there was no analog involved here. just creating a new session with the same sample and word clock rates as my DP session, and bringing in the audio.

Ill try and be more specific....

for instance, in PT I almost hear digital clipping occurring, when the wav's nor the meter's illustrate any clipping. i never noticed any clipping while tracking into DP.
"fullness", yes, its subjective for sure. just a general BIG sound that I was getting from DP. should I have chosen +12 fader gain when creating the new session? should i have chosen SDII as the files format when creating the new session? would this REALLY matter?

I just read some crazy heated thread about BWAV's and how they SHOULD be the standard. and how SD II is outdated and so forth...

I do not know much about these matters...since I always lived in the PT world until recently. I know the digital realm can yield stunning results IF YOU FOLLOW THE RULES of rates and clocks and so forth.
...just dont want to lose anything just from doing some simple editing and cleanup.

frontierfran · Post by **frontierfran** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:15 am

it's got to be the D/A in the MBOX. I would most certainly hope the D/A in the MOTU is better than the MBOX.

matwell · Post by **matwell** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:06 pm

Something seems off here. I use both PTLE and DP with a Digi 002R or Mbox. I transfer files between both apps all the time, and they sound the same. The mix bus sounds very, very, very slightly different, but I doubt that is the culprit with your situation.

pcm · Post by **pcm** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:16 pm

I move files between the two all the time, and hear no difference. As a test, why not play your DP project back thru the MBOX? That would eliminate the convertors from the comparison.

MT Groove · Post by **MT Groove** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:29 pm

The MBox's output is very misleading. It's output levels seems lower than MOTU's and also have a "rubbery" sound to it.

MOTUnation.com

sounds fine in DP, no so fine in Pro Tools

sounds fine in DP, no so fine in Pro Tools

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