decisions, decisions...MIDI controller quandry!

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:50 pm

well, i'll kick myself...i went to GC and got symphonic instrument.
that's all well and good, but i ended up playing with a novation x61.
i currently have an edirol pcr-m1, which i like for its size (and thinnness, thanks to the short key throw), but the pitch bend and mod, i generally find unusable....so now, i'm considering one of the following, as i really like the feel of the novation keys:

x25 (synth+audio interface!)
remote sl (25 key)
remote le (25 key)

i just can't decide! the x25 is probably most appealing, as it is also a synth, but i was curious as to the size, etc compared to the other two units...i'd like to keep things as reasonably portable as possible...
anyone played with any of these??

tia...

kell

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:27 pm

IMHO (and those of many other's), the feel and response of the Novation key-bed is arguably the best feeling out there. As you know, the X-station series has a built-in synth that is REALLY good! I guess it comes down to what you really need, or perhaps want too!

Either option will be good, very good--but if you also want some killer sounds that software just can't really emulate..... well, you know the answer.

Newsles · Post by **Newsles** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:19 am

One question, with Symphonic Instrument at your fingertips, why do you only want two octaves? Speaking as a keyboard player alone, Id find that a bit limiting, but with a sound palette like that, even more so.

Just a thought. On the other hand, you may have space issues in which case, fair enough.

Ive been considering a new controller. I use my DW8000 for that at the moment, but 88 keys is my ultimate aim, since I dont have room for a Steinway!

Les

yofo · Post by **yofo** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:31 pm

I use a Yamaha KX88 that I found used for $300 , hard to beat that but I now think that the weighted keys are good for one thing only , piano .

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:56 pm

YEP! But that KX88 was, is and always will be one of the BEST actions of all time! I had one on tour and one in the studio years ago, wish I had one today. KILLER for piano parts....

Newsles · Post by **Newsles** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:29 am

Yes, I tried a KX88 years ago - when they cost serious money, and it was very nice.

I agree, an action like that rather precludes the use of, say, organ sounds, but I have to say, I find doing drum parts on a weighted keyboard works for me, but maybe I'm strange!!

I suppose the thing to do would be to have a good weighted controller for dedicated piano/rhodes etc etc, and ANOTHER one for the rest - but ideal worlds are just that, and not necessarilly achievable!

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:46 pm

The weighted keys argument is very individual in nature. One person may not be experienced with weighted keys, or even if experienced may have a different feel or touch.

I switched to weighted keys for EVERYTHING except organ a few years back, and now feel much more confident in my playing. Much less inclined to hit a stray note or fumble on difficult passages.

But then I was brought up on a fairly heavy action acoustic piano.

The best controller these days is the CME UF8, soon to be second-best when the VX8 hits the stores soon.

It is the ONLY controller on the market to have graded balanced hammer action. The response is lightning fast (like a real piano), so if you use a lot of double-strike and triple-strike techniques (for classical, latin, jazz, or even for triggered marimba parts), you won't lose/miss any of your notes as you would on almost every digital keyboard in existence.

It's all a matter of your needs. I didn't respond to this thread at first because the original poster seemed to have already decided they wanted one of the Novation controllers (which are quite good as synth-action controllers compared to the competition, in feel/construction as well as features). Now that it has drifted, I decided to chime in

.

A caveat with the CME series (and almost any other) is that the MIDI spec is inevitably incomplete, and setup/recall may not be sufficient for your specific needs. You really need to identify your needs first, and only then look at what's out there and see what you like. Otherwise you'll be trying to shoehorn your needs into something that you already know that you like, and this is a recipe for the constant upgrade path (or G.A.S.).

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:41 pm

i opt for the 25 key units nowadays, because the way i'm set up now, i can basically work anywhere. on lunch break at the office, on vacation, on the patio...wherever. i always used to go for the 61 key units, and perhaps at some point i will set up a system to leave at home permanently, but for now, the portable rig is it for me

i don't really mind the two octave limitation...i don't have any piano background (i tend to dislike weighted piano-like keys), and i tend to work very piecemeal, one-part-at-a-time anyway. i don't do any keyboard splits or that sort of thing...even with msi. if a part outgrows the two octaves, i'll just play it within the two, and move what needs to be moved in the MIDI editor later.
not the most efficient way to go about things, sure, but it's a fair trade for the portability...

brad, i'm afraid that i DO know what i want...and was wondering if someone could talk me out of it. i DO NOT need the encouragement! lol
though, having said that, one upside of the xstation25 is that it also has a 2 channel audio interface...so instead of dragging around the laptop, controller, and interface...the controller doubles as interface (and a synth besides!). i could rack the traveler and keep it at home.
the downside is just cost...though in relative terms the x25 is only a hundred bucks more than the illuminated MIDI-controller-only model. guess i'll just have to suck it up and do it...
i do love the feel of the novation keyboards. almost reminds me of my ex-k2000 (the best ever!). a "synth" feel, versus a "piano" feel.

thanks for the suggestions, everyone...

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:06 pm

just an update. i got the x-station25. what an unfreakingbelievably cool piece of gear. very happy thus far. i seem to get a little better performance cpu-wise than w/the traveler, and latencies are good.
it does seem a little more prone to cpu spiking...for instance, an instrument running at 25% cpu draw will suddenly spike and then resume its normal load. not sure why...tried all kinds of different latencies, and work priorities. it seems happiest at medium, insofar as i can tell, and i typically run at 256.
to test the latency, i set the monitor mix on the x to 50/50 (the synth's direct out and dp's output), record-enabled a MIDI track in dp, routed that back to the x, and record-enabled an audio track in dp to monitor the synth's audio. it's low enough latency to sound phased. at 512, i get slapback. for me, close enough for jazz, as they say.
thanks all, my portable rig just got much more portable. the traveler is at home, rackmounted for the "serious" recordings

kell

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:21 pm

That's interesting what you say about CPU spikes/etc. using the Novation vs. the MOTU. Keep us posted. I have the option of going direct to DP 4.6 (and soon DP 5) via USB from a MIDI controller as well (not my current UF8 but the VX8 when it finally becomes available), but had assumed it would be an inferior solution to hooking up the MIDI output to the MOTU 828 mk II and then using its firewire connection to the host.

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:21 am

actually, i've always used usb MIDI controllers...i had an edirol pcr-m1 prior to the novation, and didn't have much trouble with spiking in general. if i had to guess, i'd probably say it's more likely the audio side of the interface that's causing the trouble? or perhaps just the driver in general...?