Anyone have any advice on how to make the switch to DP? Will the PreSonus Firebox or the Mackie Onyx 400F play nicely with DP?
I'm currently using ProTools with a first generation MBox. I'm really peeved that the next piece of firewire hardware that digidesign makes is the Digi002R and it costs $1200. I'd like to pick up an Onyx 400F, but it won't play with ProTools. I gotta say I'm pretty ticked off at the way digidesign does stuff. I don't want to have to buy the sequencer program over again just to use an M-Audio firewire device when there are so many other interfaces out (Firebox, Saffire, Onyx, all the MOTU stuff) that smoke the M-Audio stuff.
The thing that bothers me is that I've played around with DP and Logic on some friends' computers and I think that ProTools is so much easier to use (may just be because I know it better though). Plus, if I switch I am going to lose out on several RTAS plug-ins that I bought (I LOVE the joemeekquilizer and use several other digidesign plugs quite often).
Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is this: is it worth it for me to switch over to DP? I can recoup some cost by selling off my Mbox/software/plugs, but I'm going to pick up a new interface and a competitive crossgrade to DP is $400, so it's not going to be cheap.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Mason
Pro Tools user contemplating switch to DP
Moderator: James Steele
Forum rules
This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.
Mason--
I'm not at all a fan of M-Audio, so regardless of software, the most important thing you can do, imho, is to get a better audio interface.
With that said, what is the focus of your work? Do you deal mainly with audio recoding and mixing more than MIDI sequencing? DP is user-friendly, and I'd recommend it over Logic by a longshot.
Logic is really good with soft synths and certain functions of audio processing, audio file management, offline rendering of virtual instruments, etc. But much of Logic's best features are buried deep inside layers of menus or hundreds of keystrokes where some of these same features in DP can be done in a click or two. DP for me is much easier in terms of MIDI and audio editing.
No app is perfect, but I find DP's GUI fairly intuitive and quite elegant. Logic can get fatiguing and cluttered.
Sorry I can't address the issue of the Firebox or Onyx, but perhaps someone else can speak to this. Certainly the MOTU interfaces are quite reliable, but that's the beauty of AU-- to be able to run audio and drivers that are better integrated into the operating system.
DP gets my vote.
I'm not at all a fan of M-Audio, so regardless of software, the most important thing you can do, imho, is to get a better audio interface.
With that said, what is the focus of your work? Do you deal mainly with audio recoding and mixing more than MIDI sequencing? DP is user-friendly, and I'd recommend it over Logic by a longshot.
Logic is really good with soft synths and certain functions of audio processing, audio file management, offline rendering of virtual instruments, etc. But much of Logic's best features are buried deep inside layers of menus or hundreds of keystrokes where some of these same features in DP can be done in a click or two. DP for me is much easier in terms of MIDI and audio editing.
No app is perfect, but I find DP's GUI fairly intuitive and quite elegant. Logic can get fatiguing and cluttered.
Sorry I can't address the issue of the Firebox or Onyx, but perhaps someone else can speak to this. Certainly the MOTU interfaces are quite reliable, but that's the beauty of AU-- to be able to run audio and drivers that are better integrated into the operating system.
DP gets my vote.
6,1 MacPro, 96GB RAM, macOS Monterey 12.7.6, DP 11.33
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Kaszper
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:08 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: South east England
Performer's interface makes it a breeze for easy navigation and editing, I find. All keyboard commands can be customised, and the overview window makes editing of large sections of audio (and MIDI) a snap. This is a real drag in Pro Tools.
And as for MIDI ••“ no comparison. Pro Tools has all the essential features, but its implementation is clumsy and obstructive. By comparison, Digital Performer is elegant and efficient and totally superior.
I found going from Pro Tools to DP was like going from Windows to Macintosh, frankly. Stick with DP for 2-3 months and you'll never want to go back to Pro Tools.
And as for MIDI ••“ no comparison. Pro Tools has all the essential features, but its implementation is clumsy and obstructive. By comparison, Digital Performer is elegant and efficient and totally superior.
I found going from Pro Tools to DP was like going from Windows to Macintosh, frankly. Stick with DP for 2-3 months and you'll never want to go back to Pro Tools.
thanks
Hey everyone, thanks for the help so far. I'm not very interested in the MIDI side of things, as most of what I record is guitar, bass, and vocals. The drummer has his own setup to use to get the percussion into the computer. What I'm most concerned about is getting a Firewire interface to eliminate most of the latency I receive when recording guitar through my Mbox. Plus, I'd like something with better preamps and better A/D converters than the MBox, which is why I'm interested in the Firebox and the Mackie Onyx series. If I make the switch to one of these, I'll need to switch sequencers as Digidesign locks you into their products. It's looking more like I'll go with DP than Logic based on comments I've received here and elsewhere.
Mason
Mason
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emulatorloo
- Posts: 3227
- Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Iowa
Re: Pro Tools user contemplating switch to DP
Competitive upgrade to DP is 300.00, not 400.00, so I have saved you a hundred dollars right there:MasonAtom wrote:a competitive crossgrade to DP is $400, so it's not going to be cheap.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Mason
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MTUDPERFMAC
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rockitcity
- Posts: 409
- Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Northridge, CA
Hi Mason and welcome,
I am a Pro Tools and Digital Performer user, and both have their strengths. I find audio editing easier on PT (I use HD2 Accel), although DP can do everything PT can. You just have to get used to the different key commands. One big plus for DP is that MOTU does not lock you into their hardware the way Digi does, although there are advantages to using MOTU hardware, such as the built-in Cue Mix monitoring function.
From your earlier comment about not being too much interested in the MIDI side of things, you could get a MOTU interface (the new Ultra-lite might be a good replacement for your MBox) which ships with Audio Desk. It is basically Digital Performer without the MIDI, and includes some pretty usable plug-ins. You can upgrade to the full version of DP for an additional $395. I have had no trouble with MOTU interfaces, and I have owned several (2408, 24i, 828Mk2, and a Traveler). I'd say go for it!
Bob
I am a Pro Tools and Digital Performer user, and both have their strengths. I find audio editing easier on PT (I use HD2 Accel), although DP can do everything PT can. You just have to get used to the different key commands. One big plus for DP is that MOTU does not lock you into their hardware the way Digi does, although there are advantages to using MOTU hardware, such as the built-in Cue Mix monitoring function.
From your earlier comment about not being too much interested in the MIDI side of things, you could get a MOTU interface (the new Ultra-lite might be a good replacement for your MBox) which ships with Audio Desk. It is basically Digital Performer without the MIDI, and includes some pretty usable plug-ins. You can upgrade to the full version of DP for an additional $395. I have had no trouble with MOTU interfaces, and I have owned several (2408, 24i, 828Mk2, and a Traveler). I'd say go for it!
Bob
Mac Mini Quad i7 2.6 Ghz, 16 G RAM, 2 SSD's. Motu 896 HD Hybrid, 8pre, Fastlane USB, Presonus Faderport, vintage guitars!
Digital Performer and PT each have strengths and weaknesses. Learning a new system will take a bit of getting used to the things you took for granted in Pro TOols that may not be there in DP, or are done in a different way, and when switching a person will usually notice their absence before one discovers many of the things in DP that aren't in PT.
DP excells in MIDI, has more options of windows to work in, allows more tracks, and is far better for matching tempos/bars to existing performances that weren't done to a click. On pt the track name and the playlist are the same- so with 8 versions it can get hard to read BGVOX2NDVSEDIT because PT will change that to like 5 letters i.e.BGV2s
wheras DP will increase the screen space used for the name- you can read names better but when they get long there is less room to see other stuff in the tracks window- which is better? In DP the track names can be kept short, and each "playlist" is a "take" with a seperate space for naming so the track could be BGVOX and the take 2ndVSEDIT. In DP you can duplicate a take and revise the mix automation on it, wheras in PT if you change the mix automation in a duplicated playlist the automation will change for all the "playlists" on that track- it is neccessary to duplicate/add another track- which gets cumbersome when do 3 or 4 different mix automations of a track. If you want the automation to be the same and listen to different, say vocal takes, through the same automation with DP you might have to Set the view/edit filter to copy the mix automation parameters you want, and past those into the other takes after you have made a revision to a later take.
A single long example that it's partly what you have gotten used to, and part of what you are doing. Techno producers seem to like Logic. It addition to coming with lots of synths and plugins, it kind of lends itself to little snippets being cut and pasted into a piece. DP lends itself to long extended performances not just made up of 1,2,4 bar bits, and it seems film composers sometimes like DP, perhaps for reasons like this.
A lot of people like ProTools because people they interchange files with are using PT. Converting files from one format to another can be done, but can be problematic.
Another alternative is to get a better preamp and coverters for your Mbox and feed them in through the Digital input (SPDIF isn't it?) A mini me apogee box has a good reputation. You could go extreme and get Lavry or Prism Converters and preamps from Neve, Api, Millenia,Hardy, Great River or??? It's hard to say what if anything is going to make you recordings sound better than with the mBox. Usually 1st most important is the performance- the musicians skill for making a good recorded sound, the quality of the instrument, then sometimes the acoustical space, the engineering and the microphone are important. I hear more difference between a 414b and a 414TL microphone than between preamps, and less with convertors though convertors may tend to cumulatively color the sound when used on many different tracks. And the difference between most plugins and double precision plugins seems greater than between a mackie and a Millenia preamp. YMMV.
DP excells in MIDI, has more options of windows to work in, allows more tracks, and is far better for matching tempos/bars to existing performances that weren't done to a click. On pt the track name and the playlist are the same- so with 8 versions it can get hard to read BGVOX2NDVSEDIT because PT will change that to like 5 letters i.e.BGV2s
wheras DP will increase the screen space used for the name- you can read names better but when they get long there is less room to see other stuff in the tracks window- which is better? In DP the track names can be kept short, and each "playlist" is a "take" with a seperate space for naming so the track could be BGVOX and the take 2ndVSEDIT. In DP you can duplicate a take and revise the mix automation on it, wheras in PT if you change the mix automation in a duplicated playlist the automation will change for all the "playlists" on that track- it is neccessary to duplicate/add another track- which gets cumbersome when do 3 or 4 different mix automations of a track. If you want the automation to be the same and listen to different, say vocal takes, through the same automation with DP you might have to Set the view/edit filter to copy the mix automation parameters you want, and past those into the other takes after you have made a revision to a later take.
A single long example that it's partly what you have gotten used to, and part of what you are doing. Techno producers seem to like Logic. It addition to coming with lots of synths and plugins, it kind of lends itself to little snippets being cut and pasted into a piece. DP lends itself to long extended performances not just made up of 1,2,4 bar bits, and it seems film composers sometimes like DP, perhaps for reasons like this.
A lot of people like ProTools because people they interchange files with are using PT. Converting files from one format to another can be done, but can be problematic.
Another alternative is to get a better preamp and coverters for your Mbox and feed them in through the Digital input (SPDIF isn't it?) A mini me apogee box has a good reputation. You could go extreme and get Lavry or Prism Converters and preamps from Neve, Api, Millenia,Hardy, Great River or??? It's hard to say what if anything is going to make you recordings sound better than with the mBox. Usually 1st most important is the performance- the musicians skill for making a good recorded sound, the quality of the instrument, then sometimes the acoustical space, the engineering and the microphone are important. I hear more difference between a 414b and a 414TL microphone than between preamps, and less with convertors though convertors may tend to cumulatively color the sound when used on many different tracks. And the difference between most plugins and double precision plugins seems greater than between a mackie and a Millenia preamp. YMMV.