Inconsistent Results With Tempo Mapping

[bayswater]

Hi bayswater

Following your report about DP having an updated and improved Beats to Tempo, I just tried a couple of tracks in DP for the first time in a few years….…..Man…you are right! … it has been greatly improved

Good to hear that it works better for you now.

[Maxxy]

Hi there

I’m getting stuck with creating a good Conductor Tempo track from a free time performance … it’s a recurring difficulty for me

Basically I take the same steps as Bayswater outlined in the original post here:

"- put the first downbeat at 1/1/0,
- remove whatever tempo info their might be already in the sound file,
- detect tempo,
- copy the tempo to the conductor"

For example….the track in question is a stereo audio track… although DP’s Find Beats and Analyze Soundbite Tempo functions seem to have improved somewhat I still find that the results are not great. Rather, I have been using Moises’s Audio Separation tool which extracts a spot-on Smart Metronome audio click track

I import the Smart Click track into DP with the other separated tracks… it really is incredibly accurate ... a percussive cowbell-like sound… it couldn’t be a better candidate to extract a great tempo map from … but how to get that audio click track translated (copied) into the Conductor track?

If there is silence for a few seconds at the start of the track I might snip all the tracks so that the first audio click starts right at Bar 1 Beat 1…. and add the Sync point at the first beat… I’ve also tried merging the snipped track(s) in order to avoid any confusion in the analysis

Then: I Find Beats in the Smart Metronome audio click track… DP has no problem… I have to back off the amount just a tad as Find Beats sees an irrelevant beat in the tail of the click sound… Beats are now seen clearly on the audio click transients only… great….Apply the Beats…

When all is looking good I Analyze Soundbite Tempo and get a Sound File tempo map in the Sound File Information… Here’s where the hiccups can start… in my most recent exercise I get a single static BPM analysis which is simply incorrect… the BPM is definitely quite variable… If the audio click track’s beats are analysed correctly I can Adjust Sequence to Soundbite Tempo and get a solid Conductor tempo map…….So the question….What might be preventing the Analyze SB Tempo engine from seeing and mapping this variation correctly? Why does it sometimes come up with a fixed BPM?

The funny thing is that the DP analysis of these Smart audio click metronome tracks is often correct… but also sometimes not… I’m stuck here

I know there is the Tap Tempo and Adjust Beats to make a variable Conductor tempo track… but both these methods are very time consuming… and it would be a shame not to use such a perfect click track to construct the Conductor’s tempo

I’ve also converted the audio click track into MIDI and then tried getting those MIDI clicks written into the Conductor Tempo… without success so far… the Record Beats into the Conductor track is perhaps a possibility? … but would seem to be very awkward

I’m thinking that Melodyne might be able to get a result?

Any ideas on this? would be most appreciated…. I know this is a variation on Bayswater’s question from 4 years ago… But there was no good answer to it then……And now that one can easily get a great audio click (rather than use DP’s inconsistent beat detection engine) is there not a streamlined way to transfer those good audio or MIDI beats into the Conductor?

Thanks to all

Maxxy

[Maxxy]

OK I've just had a penny dropping moment

Let me answer my own question ( :

After making a MIDI track from the audio click track go Edit> Copy Audio to MIDI > Beats to a new MIDI track .... you can then do a Time range selection of that MIDI track and go Region> Set Sequence Tempo from MIDI ... it works

Thanks for listening... got it! ( :

Cheers and best to all

Maxxy

[Maxxy]

I meant:

Make a MIDI track from the audio click track ...... Edit> Copy Audio to MIDI > Beats to a new MIDI track

[bayswater]

I meant:

Make a MIDI track from the audio click track ...... Edit> Copy Audio to MIDI > Beats to a new MIDI track

Thanks for the update. I’ll give that a go. DP’s beat detection has improved, but it still occasionally completely misses a blindingly obvious tempo in a sound track.

[bayswater]

I checked out Tempo Mapping on the 11.32 update. I dragged in one of many audio files I have for testing plugins etc. — this time a drum track with a reasonably steady beat. DP was unable to find any reasonable tempo map in this file. I tried a couple of others, and in each case, it simply put an initial tempo event at the start of the conductor track, setting tempo for the whole time line of 77.7 bpm.

It’s particularly disappointing because MOTU Freestyle was pretty good at creating a tempo map from a freely recorded track. It was probably MIDI only, but still, you’d have to think this could be better.

[Maxxy]

Hi bayswater

I mentioned Moises before... it creates a superb Smart Click audio track... I think it is a great solution until DP does implement a top notch Find Tempo algorithm.

It really works well... I did find that DP's Analyze Soundbite Tempo works correctly only if the track starts at a clear One on the downbeat.... leaving a blank Intro lead-in time or vocal chatter etc before the first musical beat throws the Analysis out ....even if the Moises metronome track has clicks in the Intro.... So select and snip out all intro beats and only then do the analysis .... Bar 1 Beat 1 sound be the first musical beat

Interesting and useful stuff.... I'm so glad I've now got a working method...

Thanks for your help bayswater ... ( :

Best to all

Maxxy

[Michael Canavan]

Personally I find that DPs tempo detection works perfectly or not at all, and it's entirely based on whether there are detectable transients or not.

Since Moises hide their price I'm going to suggest Demux GUI, it's a free stem splitting tool. So if your material has drums, it can split them out and allow DP a fair chance to get the tempo.
https://github.com/CarlGao4/Demucs-Gui

The Audio to MIDI suggestion is a good one as well.

[bayswater]

Hi bayswater

I mentioned Moises before... it creates a superb Smart Click audio track... I think it is a great solution until DP does implement a top notch Find Tempo algorithm.

Best to all

Maxxy

Yes, Maxxy I caught that. It seems to do a lot of things, and tempo is just one of the things. I’ll get around to the demo. Yes, DP’s tempo mapping depends on having the first downbeat at a specific point, but that’s not that difficult to do.

Michael, it makes sense that DP needs recognizable transients to establish a tempo. The problem is that sometimes it can’t do it, even with glaringly obvious transients and sometime it can with subtle transients. It’s never been clear to me when it will or won’t.

Maybe they’re conforming to the new law in Azerbaijan?, or is it Khasakhstan? No it’s Chechnya that prescribes BPM limits. All music must be between 80 and 116 bpm. That leaves out most of my stuff.