Komplete Kontrol... my learning experience...

[James Steele]

So I bought a used Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2 keyboard online which should get to me by Friday, and so I've been exploring using the Komplete Kontrol plug-in more because I like the whole concept of being able to find sounds more quickly by using the tagging system and NKS.

I did learn a few things so far:

First, it seem like Komplete Kontrol needs to load the VST version of a VI or effect plug-in. Ugh. I have DP and Pro Tools on my Mac and have been in the habit of only installing AU and AAX when given the choice to customize plug-in installs. But please correct me if I'm wrong, but seems if I want to use a plug-in inside of Komplete Kontrol, I need to go back in install the VST versions of VIs and effects plugins.

Second, I had problems loading certain effects INTO Komplete Kontrol in the slot after the virtual instrument. I tried loading Eventide Blackhole as well as some Waves plugs and got a message saying Komplete Kontrol was unable to load that plug-in. This was using the plug-in version of Komplete Kontrol inside DP 11.11. Turns out the solution seems to be that when you install new VST plugs, you need to run the standalone app version of Komplete Kontrol first because it scans for new VSTs and somehow "validates" them? I know that I tried a bunch of things and before running standalone Komplete Kontrol, and then saw that it took a minute or more to scan my VSTs. After that, effects plugs opened in the plugin version of Komplete Kontrol within DP 11.11 with no problems.

All in all, I'm thinking it will be worth it. I'm also interested in seeing if it's possible as an end user to somehow create the necessary NKS support file(s) for effects plug ins that don't have it so that the effect thumbnail will appear in Komplete Kontrol. The installer for some of Eventide's newer plugs have an checkable option to install NKS support files that makes that possible.

[James Steele]

I had to edit my post above. I thought Komplete Kontrol would see VST3 versions of effects plug ins but that's not the case apparently. I had to install the VST version and then launch the standalone Komplete Kontrol for the effect to be able to be inserted in the chain in Komplete Kontrol.

[James Steele]

In some of my exploration I came across this site where you can (for a price) download the NKS support files for VIs that don't have support yet. I just tried the demo files for UVI Falcon and it seemed to work great, so I'm going to pop for the $12 US for the Falcon 2 files and see how it goes. These also include the sound previews, so a lot of work had to go into making these. Money well spent if you want NKS support for your VI that doesn't include it.

https://freelancesoundlabs.com/index.ph ... -vst-packs

[nk_e]

Thanks for that link James. The site looks like quite a find!

Letting Komplete (or Maschine for that matter) scan for new plugins in stand alone mode after adding new plugins is required for proper operation as you have discovered.

NI is seriously behind on all things VST3 related it seems.

Cheers.

[James Steele]

Thanks for that link James. The site looks like quite a find!

Yeah... I've spend a small chunk of change tonight on the NKS support files for Falcon 2 Factory, Aturia Analog Lab V, G-Force Minimonsta, etc. Considering the amount of work that must go into them, the price seems to be a bargain. Can't wait till my Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2 arrives on Friday so I can see how well this all works with the keyboard and built in screens.

Letting Komplete (or Maschine for that matter) scan for new plugins in stand alone mode after adding new plugins is required for proper operation as you have discovered.

Yep... had to learn that the hard way I guess. I suppose I could have Googled for it, but oh well... now I know.

NI is seriously behind on all things VST3 related it seems.

I guess many developers are. I'm guessing NI chose VST as the format to use within Komplete Kontrol because it's cross-platform so easier to support both Windows and MacOS that way. It's just a bit of an inconvenience going back and installing VST versions. Probably not really worth the effort as I'm not sure yet how often I'll want to insert an effect in Kontakt Komplete rather than putting it the next insert in DP itself.

[James Steele]

Well damn... got an update from UPS and my Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2 has been delayed and instead of being delivered on Friday as it was supposed to be, it's now estimated it will be delivered Monday due to some mechanical issue with a railroad. I'd been all excited looking forward to getting it tomorrow and having all weekend to start getting things all set up and "playing" with my new toy. It was not to be.

[Michael Canavan]

Just letting you know your experience with it is appreciated, waiting for an update on this when you get into it.

One of the bigger "missing" features other DAWs I own have is track/plug in automation presets, i.e. the ability that Bitwig, Live and Logic etc. have to map common parameters to your controller, so playing a virtual instrument or tweaking an effect is a little more like hardware. Komnplete Kontrol solves that for DAWs like DP and Reaper etc. etc. that do not have that VST/AU function. So I've eyed it for quite some time, but have yet to bite the bullet.

When you do get into it, one question I've never been able to figure is does KK let you map parameters yourself? i.e. if you have a preset you like with a filter or ADSR that you would like yo map for quick automation and playing around with live, is it possible to do that or are you stuck with presets?

[James Steele]

Just letting you know your experience with it is appreciated, waiting for an update on this when you get into it.

One of the bigger "missing" features other DAWs I own have is track/plug in automation presets, i.e. the ability that Bitwig, Live and Logic etc. have to map common parameters to your controller, so playing a virtual instrument or tweaking an effect is a little more like hardware. Komnplete Kontrol solves that for DAWs like DP and Reaper etc. etc. that do not have that VST/AU function. So I've eyed it for quite some time, but have yet to bite the bullet.

When you do get into it, one question I've never been able to figure is does KK let you map parameters yourself? i.e. if you have a preset you like with a filter or ADSR that you would like yo map for quick automation and playing around with live, is it possible to do that or are you stuck with presets?
[/quote]

Well, you can actually download the manual for it and it might answer some of those questions. It came today and I've been thrilled with it so far. I got a used S1 Mk2 for $430 from Guitar Center and it's in really nice shape. Only nitpicky thing for me so far is that the keyboard feels a little stiffer than what I have been used to. I'm not a keyboardist, so my opinion may not be typical. I know the keybed is made by Fatar and is supposed to be good. It just is a little stiffer than what I'm used to. I wish I could try another unit to see if the feel varies from unit to unit and mine is typical. But so far that's not enough to detract from the experience.

I'm pretty sure you can map parameters yourself and assign the soft knobs and buttons to whatever controller values you want and then save it to a preset... AFAIK. Like I said... not sure as I haven't had it that long. But seems like you can operate the keyboard in MIDI mode (when you're not using Komplete Kontrol as a shell) or you can load a VI within Komplete Kontrol. I think both ways let you map controllers.

I will say that the the DAW integration with DP 11 is excellent. You can choose Komplete Kontrol in DP's control surface setup and then have all the transport controls you'd like, plus Mixer Mode works great. You can see you track names and level meters across the two screens and bank through them and see a read out of the level in db as well as adjust the levels with the soft knobs. You can mute and solo as well. MOTU really did a good job there.

If I might suggest... do what I did and watch the Guitar Center used gear website and watch for one top pop up at a good price ($400 - $440 or so) for the the S61 and buy it... try it out. You have 30-days to return it for any reason for a full refund less shipping and if you have Guitar Center store near you, you can just take it there and drop it off. It's a great way to audition a piece of gear. I've bought several guitars that way because it takes the risk out of it like with Craiglist, Reverb, or eBay.

Being able to search and load presets in Komplete Kontrol and navigate the various instruments that support NKS is just an awesome thing... the technology works as it should. I just wish all my VIs support NKS. There's a Factory Sounds NKS support library for Falcon from the third party I mentioned above. I bought several of their third party NKS support libraries and they are working well. I may add a third screen to my setup now though since my keyboard is off to my right side facing sideways from my main monitor. I'd like to dedicate one screen to VIs and have them always be in front of me on that third screen.

All in all though I'm super happy with my purchase. I'm still digging in to this, but yeah... once you get it, it will start irritating you that ALL developers don't support NKS. I heard Akai VIP was a thing for a while, but that they dropped the ball.

[James Steele]

I know one thing I want to do is hook up an expression pedal to the second pedal input it and map it to modulation. Always bugs me when I have both hands on the keyboard and I want to move the mod wheel. I'm sure this is possible... time to bust out the manual.

[Michael Canavan]

Being able to search and load presets in Komplete Kontrol and navigate the various instruments that support NKS is just an awesome thing... the technology works as it should. I just wish all my VIs support NKS. There's a Factory Sounds NKS support library for Falcon from the third party I mentioned above. I bought several of their third party NKS support libraries and they are working well. I may add a third screen to my setup now though since my keyboard is off to my right side facing sideways from my main monitor. I'd like to dedicate one screen to VIs and have them always be in front of me on that third screen.

All in all though I'm super happy with my purchase. I'm still digging in to this, but yeah... once you get it, it will start irritating you that ALL developers don't support NKS. I heard Akai VIP was a thing for a while, but that they dropped the ball.

It's a mixed bag for me, I've owned Komplete since version 2. I have a love / hate relationship with NI, they ditched Kore, Rig Control hardware, about a dozen instruments and FX, and are always late to the party with Mac OS updates. I'm not at all surprised that only Kontakt is M1 native still. So I've waited on Komplete Control hardware like the MKIII's because if it hadn't been wildly successful for NI and it seems to have been, then it would be thrown in the pile of abandoned NI projects.

All that said it's still here, MOTU brought in support for it, which is great, because like I mentioned Live etc. have DAW level support for assigning permanent parameters of a plug in to hardware controllers, and it's something DP is missing. Komplete Control solves it though. I still hope MOTU implant universal permanent parameter mapping for controllers, but it's very possible that doesn't happen until MIDI 2.0 whenever that becomes the new standard.

I'll check out the manual, from what I recall it wasn't an easy thing to do as an end user, hopefully that's changed.

[James Steele]

Well from what I've observed, I don't really think you can open up inserts and adjust plugin parameters in DP from Komplete Kontrol. You can open and control piugs that are INSIDE a Komplete Kontrol plug-in that in an insert on DP however. You can bank through channels on DP's mixer on the Komplete Kontrol screens and adjust volume (and I assume pan... haven't checked yet... lol) and if there is an instance of Komplete Kontrol on a mixer channel you can go into the plug and load sounds and adjust effects loaded into the Komplete Kontrol plugin. I don't think they have to be NKS compatible to adjust parameters, but you can only load NKS compatible plugs from the Komplete Kontrol keyboard... you have to use a mouse to load others that don't support NKS.

[James Steele]

For whatever it's worth, I hacked together NKS support for 4Front's TruePianos VI. See: https://www.truepianos.com/

Just so I'm not updating attachments in multiple posts, the latest download will be in this topic:

viewtopic.php?p=596041#p596041