UVI workstation- M5 patches- SOLVED

[James Steele]

I should open a new topic about this. What I've found is Falcon is utterly unreliable at correctly importing EXS instruments. I'm in contact with UVI tech support over my original issue which was not being able to find the samples when prompted to locate them in Falcon. After moving the appropriate directors to my Sample Libraries drive, that issue was solved. The bigger issue is that EXS instruments imported with Falcon JUST SOUND WRONG!

I sent an archive with the necessary files for one instrument as an example to UVI to see if they can reproduce.

So apparently what I have to do is import each EXS instrument using MachFive3 and then save it as a .M5p instrument (which is only option. MachFive3 does not save as EXS) and THEN I can open it in Falcon and it will sound as it should. You cannot direct import in Falcon!! Once you've loaded the MachFive 3 instrument into Falcon, saving it retains the MachFive3 format. The file retains the .M5p extension. You CAN do a Save As and Falcon will save in Falcon's format which has a .uvip extension, but it seems unnecessary.

So it looks like I'm going to have to one by one load the EXS instruments with MachFive3, locate the samples, then save from MachFive3 and convert all the Logic EX instruments that way and they should then all be useable in Falcon.

Bottom line is it's good to keep MachFive3, especially the Standalone app, on your drive and working in case you'd ever have a need to translate an EXS format. I can't recall if MachFive ever opened .nki, but I have Kontakt so I don't care. Just trying to phase out MachFive3 as a plug in in my projects.

[bayswater]

So apparently what I have to do is import each EXS instrument using MachFive3 and then save it as a .M5p instrument (which is only option. MachFive3 does not save as EXS) and THEN I can open it in Falcon and it will sound as it should. You cannot direct import in Falcon!! Once you've loaded the MachFive 3 instrument into Falcon, saving it retains the MachFive3 format. The file retains the .M5p extension. You CAN do a Save As and Falcon will save in Falcon's format which has a .uvip extension, but it seems unnecessary.

This is what I did. I had a load of instruments done with Autosampler, saved as EXS and imported into M5 and saved as m5p files. It didn’t occur to me that Falcon would open an EXS file. I’ve not had to save any again as Falcon files, but I wouldn’t assume Falcon will always open m5p files, so it might be worth resaving anything important. Keeping MachFive is fine, but that won’t run forever either.

I can't recall if MachFive ever opened .nki, but I have Kontakt so I don't care. Just trying to phase out MachFive3 as a plug in in my projects.

M5 did open nki up to version 4, and worked with some V5 things as well, but certainly not after that.

[Michael Canavan]

I should open a new topic about this. What I've found is Falcon is utterly unreliable at correctly importing EXS instruments. I'm in contact with UVI tech support over my original issue which was not being able to find the samples when prompted to locate them in Falcon. After moving the appropriate directors to my Sample Libraries drive, that issue was solved. The bigger issue is that EXS instruments imported with Falcon JUST SOUND WRONG!

I sent an archive with the necessary files for one instrument as an example to UVI to see if they can reproduce.

So apparently what I have to do is import each EXS instrument using MachFive3 and then save it as a .M5p instrument (which is only option. MachFive3 does not save as EXS) and THEN I can open it in Falcon and it will sound as it should. You cannot direct import in Falcon!! Once you've loaded the MachFive 3 instrument into Falcon, saving it retains the MachFive3 format. The file retains the .M5p extension. You CAN do a Save As and Falcon will save in Falcon's format which has a .uvip extension, but it seems unnecessary.

So it looks like I'm going to have to one by one load the EXS instruments with MachFive3, locate the samples, then save from MachFive3 and convert all the Logic EX instruments that way and they should then all be useable in Falcon.

Bottom line is it's good to keep MachFive3, especially the Standalone app, on your drive and working in case you'd ever have a need to translate an EXS format. I can't recall if MachFive ever opened .nki, but I have Kontakt so I don't care. Just trying to phase out MachFive3 as a plug in in my projects.

Yeah that's the major negative difference between M53 and Falcon, UVI are no longer licensing the Chicken Systems translations that MOTU did with M53, and like I mentioned, UVI are ambivalent about .exs translation even though they supposedly still offer it. It's one of many reasons I'm keeping Mojave on a Mac Pro in the studio.

Another thing, Monterey and M1 Macs as of this writing do not support REX files. Reason Studios have the new SDK out, but as of now if you drag a REX file into DP it crashes, and they don't load in Falcon or UVI workstation. Opening AudioFinder in Rosetta mode you can play them, but the code OS level I suppose is not there to translate them to AIFF or WAVE.

[Michael Canavan]

M5 did open nki up to version 4, and worked with some V5 things as well, but certainly not after that.

After v4 NI started copy protecting their sample libraries so they can't be translated, even with the same extension, they don't load into translators.

[Michael Canavan]

The burning question really is what is going to happen to the M53 libraries that are attached to it's iLok?
Most of the libraries that come with M53 are not showing as authorized on Apple Silicon M1 etc. They still work of course with the iLok plugged into a Intel Mac, but I'm willing to bet it's a matter of some iLok update that either PACE has to do, or unfortunately MOTU has to pay to update for. If it's the later, I'm afraid we're SOL. Worth contacting MOTU about, I kinda doubt UVI are going to offer a solution there.

[James Steele]

The burning question really is what is going to happen to the M53 libraries that are attached to it's iLok?
Most of the libraries that come with M53 are not showing as authorized on Apple Silicon M1 etc. They still work of course with the iLok plugged into a Intel Mac, but I'm willing to bet it's a matter of some iLok update that either PACE has to do, or unfortunately MOTU has to pay to update for. If it's the later, I'm afraid we're SOL. Worth contacting MOTU about, I kinda doubt UVI are going to offer a solution there.

You'd think that there's likely a way to open instruments individually in Falcon and then save as Instrument + Samples in Falcon which might then decouple the instrument from the need for iLok. All the iLok is necessary for is opening and mounting the large .ufs file so that it appears as a volume in the MachFive browser, yes? So once an instrument is saved onto a drive and not into the virtual UFS volume, it should be able to be used without the iLok from then on. At least that's what it seems like. I should give it a whirl. Some of these are duplicated in the MOTU Instruments download from MOTU I think? I have to check.

[James Steele]

FWIW... although I'm having better success opening EXS instruments from MachFive3, I can tell many of them aren't coming in as intended either, but still better than Falcon.

[Michael Canavan]

You'd think that there's likely a way to open instruments individually in Falcon and then save as Instrument + Samples in Falcon which might then decouple the instrument from the need for iLok. All the iLok is necessary for is opening and mounting the large .ufs file so that it appears as a volume in the MachFive browser, yes?

I think the problem is the actual samples are all loaded into a closed, iLok protected ufs file. you can make patches of the presets on the GUI etc. but you can't save the samples separately from the locked ufs file.

So once an instrument is saved onto a drive and not into the virtual UFS volume, it should be able to be used without the iLok from then on. At least that's what it seems like. I should give it a whirl. Some of these are duplicated in the MOTU Instruments download from MOTU I think? I have to check.

I think our best bet is that SoundToys and other iLok companies that haven't ported to M1 yet who claim it's on iLok are right, and a change in the way PACE "sees" the M53 authorization comes soon that allows them to be used on M1 Macs with an iLok.

[SMS]

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes, the problem is just that those .ufs volumes from the original M5 library somehow need iLok authorization to open in Falcon. Maybe I'll try installing Falcon on my Mojave intel machine and see if it opens the .ufs there.

UVI aren't responding to my support request.

[Michael Canavan]

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes, the problem is just that those .ufs volumes from the original M5 library somehow need iLok authorization to open in Falcon. Maybe I'll try installing Falcon on my Mojave intel machine and see if it opens the .ufs there.

UVI aren't responding to my support request.

UVI aren't able to help, it's not really an UVI issue. Got ahold of MOTU about this, because basically this is an iLok issue. The M53 iLok license is what authorizes the 9+ libraries that come with M53, and M53 hasn't been touched software wise in years, so the license is not current enough for M1 software changes, MOTU would probably have to pay to update it and even update the M53 application to allow for the changes on the iLok side. Currently there is no plan to do so. So the libraries attached to M53 will not work on an M1 Mac.

Not my favorite MOTU trait, M53 is not currently listed as deprecated on their site, but it is. I'm planning on keeping this Mac Pro around for a while, and if it dies replacing it with a Windows box to serve as a VEP slave for software like this, because this is how it's worked forever on the Mac side, OS 9 to X, PPC to Intel, and now Intel to M1 always ends up with some software being ends of line.

[SMS]

Yeah that’s what I figured the resolution was going to be… I think MOTU should stop saying then that M5 libraries will open in UVI workstation or Falcon.

Thanks

[oldecuriosity]

In case this helps . . . I ran into the same problem after getting my new M1. After contacting UVI (who confirmed it was an iLok/MOTU issue so they couldn’t help), I contacted AcousticSamples since they still own most of the Mach5 library contact. For a nominal fee, they gave me new serial numbers and updated libraries that will work with the new UVI workstation if you want to run DP natively on your M1 Mac. I’m still downloading some now, but all looks good thus far.

[Michael Canavan]

In case this helps . . . I ran into the same problem after getting my new M1. After contacting UVI (who confirmed it was an iLok/MOTU issue so they couldn’t help), I contacted AcousticSamples since they still own most of the Mach5 library contact. For a nominal fee, they gave me new serial numbers and updated libraries that will work with the new UVI workstation if you want to run DP natively on your M1 Mac. I’m still downloading some now, but all looks good thus far.

Oh man I never thought of this, but this is a totally rational solution. It's possible MOTU would have to pay AcousticSamples and PACE a fee to update the libraries to run on M1 Macs, which would make the incentive to fix end of life M53 libraries that much less likely.

Definitly gonna look into this, thanks for doing the research!

[mikehalloran]

In case this helps . . . I ran into the same problem after getting my new M1. After contacting UVI (who confirmed it was an iLok/MOTU issue so they couldn’t help), I contacted AcousticSamples since they still own most of the Mach5 library contact. For a nominal fee, they gave me new serial numbers and updated libraries that will work with the new UVI workstation if you want to run DP natively on your M1 Mac. I’m still downloading some now, but all looks good thus far.

Oh man I never thought of this, but this is a totally rational solution. It's possible MOTU would have to pay AcousticSamples and PACE a fee to update the libraries to run on M1 Macs, which would make the incentive to fix end of life M53 libraries that much less likely.

Definitly gonna look into this, thanks for doing the research!

That's good news. Going to have to check that out when the time comes.

I've read a lot of chatter that iLok is not yet AS native but nothing definitive in the last few weeks. Any news more recent?

[Michael Canavan]

That's good news. Going to have to check that out when the time comes.

I've read a lot of chatter that iLok is not yet AS native but nothing definitive in the last few weeks. Any news more recent?

Vienna Instruments are being pretty transparent about their move to iLok, that there's some things PACE is doing before they move, but we're apparently talking about weeks at this point, which is great. For the record it runs fine as a Rosetta application. I'm using it to run the Slate Raven software also running in Rosetta, which works pretty good.

So all told I'm betting PACE and Vienna teaming up and iLok going native are more or less going to happen at the same time, since the dates are so close. Vienna said they are close to done with the move.


Hopefully that pans out for SoundToys, and a few other iLok plug ins I have that haven't made the transition yet.