Quantizing drumset tracks per MOTU's webinar

[philbrown]

I've always been sceptical of this sort of thing, but after watching the MOTU webinar about it, I exactly followed the steps given to quantize a simple drum track (in sections, as suggested). In prefs I selected 'ZTX Standard' and in the Stretch area I selected 'Standard - Best'. The tracks are kick, snare top and bottom, 2 toms and stereo overheads. The result sounded like crap. "Smeary" is the best way I can describe it, and completely unusable.

Any thoughts about this?

[terrybritton]

Well, you did it wrong, then...

(The word "it" used intentionally to impart a special level of vagueness into this, just for you, Dr. Vague!)

OR... something else.

Not quite sure what could cause "smear" in this situation.

Really helpful, aren't I?

Terry

[philbrown]

Well, you did it wrong, then...

(The word "it" used intentionally to impart a special level of vagueness into this, just for you, Dr. Vague!)

OR... something else.

Not quite sure what could cause "smear" in this situation.

Really helpful, aren't I?

Terry

Cracked me up, Terry!

[bayswater]

If you did the "find beats -- copy beats" thing, and turned on Stretch for all the relevant tracks in the Tracks window, it looks like you did the same thing we saw in the Webinar.

Did they sound smeary before the quantize?

[Drumwizard]

You forgot something... Just add a drumloop from Stylus!

[kurtl]

So I tried the exact same thing. I found the ride cym track was the best choice for a 'copy beat' guide track. It sounded ok with an 8bar cut. Then I tried to make it sound better with ZTX standard best, nope sounded worse. Tried ZTX efficient (better or best), sounded better. Don't know why. The only time it sounded smeary, and it does, is when I quantized the whole 4 min track as one group of sound bites. Seems like the longer it has to think about stretching it gets smeary. So cutting it up in smaller chunks seems to work.

[bayswater]

Seems like the longer it has to think about stretching it gets smeary. So cutting it up in smaller chunks seems to work.

That might be the ticket. He did say to cut the sequence up and do it in sections.

[philbrown]

So I tried the exact same thing. I found the ride cym track was the best choice for a 'copy beat' guide track. It sounded ok with an 8bar cut. Then I tried to make it sound better with ZTX standard best, nope sounded worse. Tried ZTX efficient (better or best), sounded better. Don't know why. The only time it sounded smeary, and it does, is when I quantized the whole 4 min track as one group of sound bites. Seems like the longer it has to think about stretching it gets smeary. So cutting it up in smaller chunks seems to work.

I cut up the 4 minute song in maybe 4 sections. Sounds like maybe those were too long, judging by your results. Thanks for the info. I used the O/H track for 'copy beats'. Not exactly sure what constitutes the best choice but I could try another track. I used to mic the hihat but have the O/H mics a little closer to eliminate the need for that, so it's pretty much kick, snare or O/H as choices for me.

If you did the "find beats -- copy beats" thing, and turned on Stretch for all the relevant tracks in the Tracks window, it looks like you did the same thing we saw in the Webinar.

Did they sound smeary before the quantize?

I literally turned on the video and paused it at every step to match what Matt did exactly, so I didn't miss anything, since Im not familiar with any of the workflow.

Our studio kit is tuned up, sounds great (new Noble and Cooley walnut snare) and mic'ed up well. No smeariness at all. I may try again with alternate settings in the Pitch/Stretch window and use shorter sections per kurtl.

You forgot something... Just add a drumloop from Stylus!

I LOVE Stylus and use it all the time for my doctorvague electronic music! No loops come near my band's music, though. They would laugh at the suggestion!

[bayswater]

If you did the "find beats -- copy beats" thing, and turned on Stretch for all the relevant tracks in the Tracks window, it looks like you did the same thing we saw in the Webinar.

I literally turned on the video and paused it at every step to match what Matt did exactly, so I didn't miss anything, since Im not familiar with any of the workflow.

That's not encouraging. The video made it look bulletproof.

Our studio kit is tuned up, sounds great (new Noble and Cooley walnut snare) and mic'ed up well. No smeariness at all. I may try again with alternate settings in the Pitch/Stretch window and use shorter sections per kurtl.

Sorry, that question was just a dumb joke.

[philbrown]

If you did the "find beats -- copy beats" thing, and turned on Stretch for all the relevant tracks in the Tracks window, it looks like you did the same thing we saw in the Webinar.

I literally turned on the video and paused it at every step to match what Matt did exactly, so I didn't miss anything, since Im not familiar with any of the workflow.

That's not encouraging. The video made it look bulletproof.

I stand corrected, I used the 'Standard Best' setting and I actually don't remember and need to look back at what setting Matt used. I thought I was using the best setting but per krtl's post above maybe I should have used "Efficient'. I did follow all the other steps to the letter, but also maybe I need to do shorter sections than I did. I wouldn't write it off, Bays- or anyone else. I'm neck deep in home improvement projects to mess with it much for the next few days and I plan on recutting the drums Sunday no matter what.

[sayatnova]

Not sure this is relevant to your situation exactly, but with regards to the Time Shifting in DP: you cannot do it on a series of properly recorded and aligned multi tracks (ie: a drum kit group) and maintain phase alignment. I learned this the hard way, and was confirmed by many tech exchanges with MOTU support. The time shifting is really for mono material. Even if you use the same exact settings, and bounce the same tracks the same exact way, they will no longer be in phase. It will not behave the same way for each track previously in phase. I tried all of the quality setting, as well.

The best you can do is to do the time stretch each track and then re-align everything as well as possible after that. I used and liked Auto Align by Sound Radix. There are other tools out there, that is just what I used and liked, FYI.

Hopefully this will help others avoid frustration using time-stretch in DP!

~Shea

[philbrown]

Not sure this is relevant to your situation exactly, but with regards to the Time Shifting in DP: you cannot do it on a series of properly recorded and aligned multi tracks (ie: a drum kit group) and maintain phase alignment. I learned this the hard way, and was confirmed by many tech exchanges with MOTU support. The time shifting is really for mono material. Even if you use the same exact settings, and bounce the same tracks the same exact way, they will no longer be in phase. It will not behave the same way for each track previously in phase. I tried all of the quality setting, as well.

The best you can do is to do the time stretch each track and then re-align everything as well as possible after that. I used and liked Auto Align by Sound Radix. There are other tools out there, that is just what I used and liked, FYI.

Hopefully this will help others avoid frustration using time-stretch in DP!

~Shea

Were your tests and conversations with MOTU before or after the ZTX time stretching was implemented? I assume after, but it's worth clarifying.

[bjornln]

Phil,

Matt said, depend on the source you may have to figure out which version of the timestrech / pitch you should use, it may vary on the source...

Best,
/B