Bring back the Loop tool in DP 10.11

[allemande]

I am not sure what our friends were smoking when they designed the new DP 10.1 but we absolutely need the old loop tool and 'insert loop' features back. I reversed back to 9.52 for the time being until these features are added back in. Packing to a Clip? No thanks.

[philbrown]

I couldn't agree more. There's no reason in the world to require a workaround to create a simple loop that you can easily create in any DAW. I wrote to MOTU about it and they seemed like they were dead set on this left turn they've taken with loops. Sorry, MOTU, but I think this is one of dumbest moves you've made in years. For the record, I have no problem with adding the Clips feature (although until they add clip chaining it's of no use to me personally). I just don't see how Clips replace Loops, other than as a non-intuitive workaround.

[HCMarkus]

At least for now, use the Repeat function. Still works great in DP10.

[richhickey]

At least for now, use the Repeat function. Still works great in DP10.

Repeat is not a great substitute for loop. Every DAW has repeat and it's a pain/limited. DP had distinguished itself with a proper loop function, now it doesn't have it.

+1 bring it back please.

[Michael Canavan]

Going to completely disagree with everyone here. It's two new key commands to learn, Pack into Clips and Unpack Clips. After that nothing about using Clips as loops is less intuitive or lacks in features compared to the Loop Tool, which visually was always a mess.

[bayswater]

There have been requests for MIDI regions forever, and MOTU has given us regions as only they would do, with other changes that come with it. I have to agree with Michael. If DP always had MIDI regions and worked this way, I doubt this would be an issue.

[Michael Canavan]

I think the bone to throw here is that IMO it seems that Clips, and the way they operate isn't fully integrated into DP yet. This would all be a lot easier to digest if Clips weren't treated as entirely separate, with their own sub window only edit window.

I would like to see the MIDI data in Clips in the regular MIDI editor window, that it just doesn't show at all is disconcerting, it's not entirely different data, they could have implemented some sort of bracket device to indicate the loop like they do in other Clip capable DAWs. Without a bracket on top of the MIDI editor for instance you would know it's not a Clip. As of now you can't audition the quantization in Clips etc. Recording to Clips in the linear sequencers is a Preference instead of a Keyboard shortcut, IMO it should be able to be binded to a shortcut.

I'm guessing that this is a halfway point, MOTU are not entirely done with Clips, and hopefully we see some improvements to the way it's implemented. In the mean time, Everyone should set up key commands for unpacking and packing Clips, make your lives easier, and move on to the New Way™

[spitfire31]

While I fully respect Michael Canavan's views and agree that probably Clips are as yet a bit half baked, I still want the Loop tool back. So there!

Clips may be all the rage these days, but although (or because?) I've been using Performer/DP since version one, on the blue (?) floppy in a Mac Plus, I have difficulties wrapping my head around the DP 10.11 Clips implementation, what with this Tetris like set-up, and so on.

My background is fairly linear. I come from film and video and the Loop Tool fitted right into the linear concept. All IMHO, of course.
So, I still want the loop tool back unless MOTU can come up with a, to my linear mind, more streamlined implementation of the LT functionality.

[philbrown]

<<<So, I still want the loop tool back unless MOTU can come up with a, to my linear mind, more streamlined implementation of the LT functionality.

Please write to MOTU and tell them. I've written twice and so far they're digging in their heels about it. I don't get it. It's just a piece of code they already have.

[Michael Canavan]

So, I still want the loop tool back unless MOTU can come up with a, to my linear mind, more streamlined implementation of the LT functionality.

So a solution for you is this, set up a keyboard shortcut for both packing and unpacking Clips. Something easy to remember. If I recall correctly there's already one for packing Clips, like "Control Shift 1" I think? so it's easy enough to add Control Shift 2 to unpack. Also Command E opens and closes the Clip Editor.

Doing this you have the same control over your Loop that you had with the Loop Tool, in fact even more. Adding in 2 or 4 extra phrases of a loop was select, keyboard shortcut for a pop up, add in new loop length, apply. It's literally grab the lower part of the looped Clip and drag to the new length now. Unpacking a Clip that's looped results in MIDI notes for all the looped material, I don't even recall if you could do this with the old implementation? or my brain couldn't figure it out anyway. The caveats are truly minor, mostly that Clips have their own editor, and do not work with the Drum editor, so it's best for a MIDI phrase to be mostly "baked" before looping if it's a drum line etc.

Beyond that Clips can be used entirely without the Clips Window if you want, the two aren't at all tied to the hip, and I truly can't think of anything that was so much greater about the Loop Tool. I've bounced around using a half dozen DAWs at least for months on end, and the Loop Tool in DP was always one of the absolute worst in terms of workflow set up parts of DP. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but Logic, Live etc. had a much more fluid approach to looping than DP had, and it's not at all surprising that it changed in DP to be more like the rest. Once you get used to it, I think you're going to realize how much better it is now, it's just getting beyond your own uncanny valley of uncertainty with it.

[apanacci]

I felt the same way about losing the Loop Function.I was fooling around with Performer Lite and recorded a 4 bar MIDI part. I highlighted the 4 bars, hit pack into clip and the "new tool" popped up at the top end of the 4 bar clip. I then stretched out the clip for as many times as I needed it. In Digital Perf 10 you can record in the Tracks Window your 4 bars, highlight it and choose Pack Into Clips and then go to the Sequence Window and you can stretch it out there. Very simple for me now when I need it. You can do all of this in the main window of Performer Lite.

[Michael Canavan]

I felt the same way about losing the Loop Function.I was fooling around with Performer Lite and recorded a 4 bar MIDI part. I highlighted the 4 bars, hit pack into clip and the "new tool" popped up at the top end of the 4 bar clip. I then stretched out the clip for as many times as I needed it. In Digital Perf 10 you can record in the Tracks Window your 4 bars, highlight it and choose Pack Into Clips and then go to the Sequence Window and you can stretch it out there. Very simple for me now when I need it. You can do all of this in the main window of Performer Lite.

I think you're getting a little confused here. Performer lites main window is simply the Sequence Window, it doesn't have a Tracks window. You can pack into Clips in the Sequence window in DP10 as well, so there's no real difference. The one snag in DP10 is there's no room at the end of a Clip in the Tracks window to add in the contextual Loop tool, so you can't loop from the Tracks window, which is IMO something they should correct in an update, like not being able to use the Drum editor on Clips, you have to unpack them to use that window.

I think that's the only thing that's a little off putting by all the new changes, they'e not 100% integrated IMO at this point, there should be at least a keyboard command for looping a Clip in the Tracks window. An olive branch to the haters here, MOTU could have a pop up window specific to the Tracks window for looping a Clip in that window, this would give you "Loop xx measures" without losing anything gained by Clips, and along with learning two key commands, you have your old system pretty much.

[apanacci]

Thanks Michael, cleared up some things for me. I use just the loop function for doing prepro work with client,s songs. You are using it much more in depth than I am. I do really miss the simplicity of it all though. Thanks again !

[spitfire31]

… The one snag in DP10 is there's no room at the end of a Clip in the Tracks window to add in the contextual Loop tool, so you can't loop from the Tracks window, which is IMO something they should correct in an update…

And that's my main gripe, I think. Is there any advantage having to click back and forth between the Tracks and the Sequence windows? Kludgey and inelegant.

Kind regards,

Joachim

[Michael Canavan]

… The one snag in DP10 is there's no room at the end of a Clip in the Tracks window to add in the contextual Loop tool, so you can't loop from the Tracks window, which is IMO something they should correct in an update…

And that's my main gripe, I think. Is there any advantage having to click back and forth between the Tracks and the Sequence windows? Kludgey and inelegant.

Kind regards,

Joachim

Dozens of reasons to use the Sequence Editor, it's much better for all kinds of work, automation, audio editing etc. Mostly I'm just used to using the Track window and the big MIDI graphic editor, but once tamed the Sequence editor is capable of doing most everything. Tracks is great for big edits for sure, but IMO once Clips become fully integrated into DP, they're better than parsed MIDI, and the Tracks window isn't that great for MIDI editing in general.

Inherently DP is weird when it comes to having Tracks and Sequence views of the timeline, most DAWs only have one arrangement window, and editing sub-windows, and/or piano rolls etc. It's the anomaly of DP, like how Logic has a Mixer view and an Environment mixer overview.