828es question: Ok to connect gear using unbalanced cables?

[chlorinedream]

I'm getting a used 828es and was curious if it's ok to used unbalanced 1/4" instrument cables to connect unbalanced gear (Korg Minilogue XD, etc). I've got high quality cables but they are not balanced. Any advice here? Thanks.

[mikehalloran]

A lot of hardware can be connected with either balanced or unbalanced cables. If there’s no noise problem with unbalanced cables, you’re fine. It’s easy to tell: Buy one balanced cable and A/B it with an unbalanced one — you’ll hear the difference or you won’t. This isn’t one of those “hear with your eyes” situations where you read the specs and wonder if A is really better than B or not — 60 Hz hum isn’t subtle.

My space in the heart of the Silicon Valley is subject to a great deal of electrical interference. I require star-quad interconnect and mic cables all around — much quieter than balanced cables in my environment. A waste of money for most rooms but not mine. Again, if one can’t hear a difference, there is none.

[HCMarkus]

I'm getting a used 828es and was curious if it's ok to used unbalanced 1/4" instrument cables to connect unbalanced gear (Korg Minilogue XD, etc). I've got high quality cables but they are not balanced. Any advice here? Thanks.

Here's the skinny for the 828es and all the newer MOTU stuff:

If connecting the output of unbalanced gear (like most hardware synths), no problem using 1/4" TS>TS cables. Obviously, if connecting the output of balanced gear to an 828es input, balanced (TRS or XLR) on both ends of the cable is the way to go.

If connecting an output of the 828es to an unbalanced input, float the ring.

From the manual. Page 86:

☛ Quarter-inch analog outputs are not cross-coupled. Therefore, when connecting them to an unbalanced input, use a TRS plug with the ring disconnected. Not floating the negative terminal will short it to the sleeve ground and cause distortion.

This is easily accomplished when connecting 1/4" to 1/4": just use standard TRS>TRS cables. On the unbalanced input, the ring of the TRS plug will not be touching anything and, thus, will float. DO NOT use unbalanced TS>TS cables to connect the 1/4" 828es outputs to other gear.

If connecting a pair of 828es outputs to an unbalanced stereo TRS input (i.e. a headphone amp), a special cable will need to be built, using two TRS plugs with floating rings connected to a single TRS plug with common ground (sleeve).

[daniel.sneed]

Sad to learn Motu balanced outputs are not floating type.

IMOE, real world jobs do include many wiring situations.
Balanced-floating output gear means few troubles.

[HCMarkus]

Sad to learn Motu balanced outputs are not floating type.

IMOE, real world jobs do include many wiring situations.
Balanced-floating output gear means few troubles.

Some may disagree... just sayin'.

Since the solution when outputting from MOTU to unbalanced gear is, in any typical studio, so simple, methinks it ain't worth worrying about. Just something to be aware of.

[mothra]

I take it this is only in regards to later units? Ive had plenty of unbalanced gear connected to my 828mk2 for years without any 'distortion' happening unless it was intentional (I do have two Waldorfs after all). Every synth Ive ever owned except for my samplers are unbalanced, and no problems there. I do use floating ring cables with my modular though. Seems to get CV and gate just fine from the MOTU but since its my modular (and $$$$$$) figured I would heed the communities advice and not risk hurting anything. Supposedly the MOTU itself can somehow get damaged by the constant CV coming out of it if there is no floating ring. I think that's what I read anyways, its been awhile.

[HCMarkus]

I take it this is only in regards to later units? I've had plenty of unbalanced gear connected to my 828mk2 for years without any 'distortion' happening unless it was intentional (I do have two Waldorfs after all). Every synth Ive ever owned except for my samplers are unbalanced, and no problems there. I do use floating ring cables with my modular though.

Edited the following for clarity. Also, please note this discussion refers to the use of audio connections, not synth CV connections (with which I have no experience).

The discussion in this thread only concerns AVB MOTU units' outputs. Like the older MOTU gear, inputs on the AVB Pro Audio interfaces can accept balanced (TRS) or unbalanced (TS) plugs at their inputs, no special cables required. Only the AVB interface outputs need to be connected to unbalanced inputs with the ring floated; use TRS>TRS cables on AVB interface outputs regardless of whether the receiving gear has TRS or TS input jacks and all will be well.

Earlier MOTU units, like your 828mkII do not require floating of the ring on outputs; TS or TRS cables work fine. I used an 828mkII for over 10 years and it served me extremely well; matter of fact, it still works. I only hope my 828es proves as durable. Like the 828mkII, it is a fine piece of kit.

[acidrecords]

hello, i have to bring this thread up.

how is it with the 828mk3 ?