Getting Some Unity Gain w/ 828x

[ggm1960]

I've had this unit for several years but haven't actually used it for a year. I'm trying to setup for a new project now and I'd just like to be able to plug my krome keyboard into analog in 3/4 and have it be a unity gain at 1/2 analog out. For some reason I'm having to turn the trim or slider down about -24db just to keep my output from clipping and distorting. I don't recall having a problem like that before.
I intend to use DP9 (mostly for MIDI) but for now I was just hoping to be able to run this keyboard through the 828x unit.

I'm currently reading the manual but just don't seem to be stumbling on any useful info for this situation.

I'd really appreciate any clues as to what I might be doing wrong or what I should look at. Thanks!

[magicd]

I don't know the spec for the Krome but I expect it's maximum output is no where near as hot as the maximum output of the 828.

What are you plugging the outs of the 828 into? If you'r plugging it into a keyboard amp, then yes it wouldn't surprise me if full scale output from the 828 overloads the input of the keyboard amp.

Dave

[ggm1960]

I don't know the spec for the Krome but I expect it's maximum output is no where near as hot as the maximum output of the 828.

What are you plugging the outs of the 828 into? If you'r plugging it into a keyboard amp, then yes it wouldn't surprise me if full scale output from the 828 overloads the input of the keyboard amp.

Dave

Right now I'm just plugging it all into a mixer setup I have here at home. What's weird is that I have to pad the krome -24/25db in order to get the same general output level I get when I simply plug the krome directly into the same input channel pair.
It's surprising that I'm getting such gain simply running the krome through an 828x 1/4" analog in/out pair. You see I don't understand why I should be getting any gain through the unit at all.
It's the kind of thing you would expect to see if an input was set to mic rather than line level but I don't believe the 1/4" inputs even have the option for mic level gain.

[magicd]

Right now I'm just plugging it all into a mixer setup I have here at home. What's weird is that I have to pad the krome -24/25db in order to get the same general output level I get when I simply plug the krome directly into the same input channel pair.
It's surprising that I'm getting such gain simply running the krome through an 828x 1/4" analog in/out pair. You see I don't understand why I should be getting any gain through the unit at all.
It's the kind of thing you would expect to see if an input was set to mic rather than line level but I don't believe the 1/4" inputs even have the option for mic level gain.

The 828 has very hot outputs. I forget the exact spec but I think around 22 dB possibly?

What I would do is check gain at each stage to get the cleanest signal. I'd start by setting the output volume of the Krome to maximum. Now check Cuemix and check the input level for the channels. The line inputs on the 828 are also capable to taking a very hot signal. Set the input trims for the 828 so the Krome is not overloading the 828 inputs.

What type of inputs are you using on the mixer - line or mic? Again, the outputs of the 828 are line level and hot. Ideally you'd run the outputs of the 828 at full scale and then attenuate input on the mixer line inputs. If you are going into mic inputs on the mixer you'll almost certainly have to attenuate the outputs of the 828.

Dave

[ggm1960]

The 828 has very hot outputs. I forget the exact spec but I think around 22 dB possibly?

Dave

Wow that seems crazy!
For reference on everything I'm talking about my connections are all 1/4", stereo pairs at what I expected to be line level. I mentioned earlier how it had been a year since I'd been using the thing and didn't remember having this problem so I was thinking back. I was in a band at the time and was inputting two keyboards (3 for a while) and that all feed to one stereo output. That along with a separate track for a click and another for some pre-recorded audio was feed to our sound guy through a 4 channel 1/4" snake. So the deal is I never actually dealt with the output myself and wouldn't even have known he was padding it or how much.

I'll just have to move forward with this knowledge and work from there, if I need to pad it way down I guess I'll just do that!
Thanks for assistance and info!

[magicd]

The 828 has very hot outputs. I forget the exact spec but I think around 22 dB possibly?

Dave

Wow that seems crazy!
For reference on everything I'm talking about my connections are all 1/4", stereo pairs at what I expected to be line level. I mentioned earlier how it had been a year since I'd been using the thing and didn't remember having this problem so I was thinking back. I was in a band at the time and was inputting two keyboards (3 for a while) and that all feed to one stereo output. That along with a separate track for a click and another for some pre-recorded audio was feed to our sound guy through a 4 channel 1/4" snake. So the deal is I never actually dealt with the output myself and wouldn't even have known he was padding it or how much.

I'll just have to move forward with this knowledge and work from there, if I need to pad it way down I guess I'll just do that!
Thanks for assistance and info!

I don't want to misrepresent anything so DIY measurements or official word from MOTU says what the output levels are. But they are hot (relatively speaking).

In my experience high-end analog studio gear has had typically very hot (high-gain) inputs and outputs. This makes for good S/N ratios.

Gain matching between gear has always been critical. Specs are sometimes available, but speaking for myself I check each match between stages just to be sure.

Happy to help!
Dave

[ggm1960]

Seems that I've gotten a handle on this although I still don't know what my problem was. I started with a reset to factory default settings. After that I was able to get unity gain from a set of rear inputs to rear outputs. I'm doing some studying of the 828x manual to try and get a better understanding of the CueMix software so that I can be sure of what I'm routing and where.

I would have just ran my keyboard output direct to my amp except that I may want to include some additional output from the computer/digital performer and by routing the keyboard through the 828x I can eliminate additional cabling while using the same input channels on my amp for all of it.