Instrument track on DP

[dado]

A question to everyone here: why DP does not implement the function of opening only one track for virtual instruments (like Logic X) instead of one MIDI track+one VI ? Where is the advantage of this? Thanks

[magicd]

This is an old question.

DP is the descendent of Performer, which was the original MIDI sequencer on Mac (Opcode guys can debate that). Way back when, MIDI was sent out of the computer to external hardware modules. In the very early days, a lot of MIDI modules were single channel devices. The Korg M1 and then other synths and samplers provided multi-channel separate voices. So it made good sense to have individual MIDI tracks for each channel/device.

DP still uses that model. Whether you use external modules or internal VIs, there are separate MIDI tracks for each channel/device. There are still plenty of people who use external MIDI modules, so the behavior stays consistent.

The place this really makes a difference is when you use a multi-channel external module or VI. You have a separate MIDI track for each channel on input to the hardware or software instrument.

In ProTools by comparison, you can have an instrument track that is also a MIDI track. But the problem is if that instrument is multi-timbral, you do then need separate MIDI tracks for the additional channels. It might be convenient to have a single track for one instrument and one channel of MIDI input, but for multi-timbral instruments, that gets confusing (at least to me).

Logic combines MIDI tracks and VIs but I've never been able to get my head around how Logic handles multi-timbral VIs. I guess for a Logic user, it makes sense...

MOTU added the ability to create an instrument track with one or more assigned MIDI tracks with a single command. That makes it simple to get going with a VI.

Hope that helps!
Dave

[dado]

[quote="magicd"]This is an old question.

DP is the descendent of Performer, which was the original MIDI sequencer on Mac (Opcode guys can debate that). Way back when, MIDI was sent out of the computer to external hardware modules. In the very early days, a lot of MIDI modules were single channel devices. The Korg M1 and then other synths and samplers provided multi-channel separate voices. So it made good sense to have individual MIDI tracks for each channel/device.

DP still uses that model. Whether you use external modules or internal VIs, there are separate MIDI tracks for each channel/device. There are still plenty of people who use external MIDI modules, so the behavior stays consistent

The place this really makes a difference is when you use a multi-channel external module or VI. You have a separate MIDI track for each channel on input to the hardware or software instrument.

In ProTools by comparison, you can have an instrument track that is also a MIDI track. But the problem is if that instrument is multi-timbral, you do then need separate MIDI tracks for the additional channels. It might be convenient to have a single track for one instrument and one channel of MIDI input, but for multi-timbral instruments, that gets confusing (at least to me).

Logic combines MIDI tracks and VIs but I've never been able to get my head around how Logic handles multi-timbral VIs. I guess for a Logic user, it makes sense...

MOTU added the ability to create an instrument track with one or more assigned MIDI tracks with a single command. That makes it simple to get going with a VI.

Hope that helps!
Dave[

Thanks magicd!

[Michael Canavan]

I would add in that Chunks makes using a separate MIDI track a more desirable approach.
If you use Chunks to write with, then V-Racks become where you would prefer AUi and VSTi' s. You always need a separate MIDI input track for Chunks.

I've never understood the argument that it's confusing to have a single instrument track that you can route MIDI to though? it's no more confusing than a synth with a keyboard VS a rack module. With DP you end up if you decide not to use racks, for say a ten track VSTi song, 20 tracks, then 30 if you decide to print the tracks to audio files by either freezing or bussing to audio tracks. Compare this to Logic or any other DAW really these days where you have ten instrument tracks, select a menu command to 'bounce all tracks as separate audio files'. Coming from any other DAW the way DP10 works where you end up with 30 tracks to perform the same function you can in Live, Logic etc. in ten, is going to look way more confusing.

[Prime Mover]

I would be cool with them implementing a Combo track feature, but NOT if they got rid of the dual MIDI/Instrument channel system. I'll admit that I only rarely take advantage of the 2-track system, and would welcome having less tracks to scroll through. But it also can be very helpful. Many times I'll make basic mockups that include a bunch of basic instruments on one Kontakt instance, under different MIDI channels, than use a bunch of MIDI tracks into it, and it makes things very nice and self-contained. I also take advantage of V-Racks, but less for final-mixes (again, I tend to use V-Racks for mockup-type stuff, but want individual control for final versions).

Magic Dave is right, though. Overall, the two-track system is more powerful than the one-track system when you need it to be. Logic is banking that for most of their users it's not necessary, and they're probably right 95% of the time. MOTU isn't willing to give up that 5% though, and though the 2-track system is a little more cluttered, it stays around.

But here's the way I see it. DP has the "Track Window", which makes every track very small so you can see a lot of them. Two 12pt font-size tracks is still way less visual clutter than Logic's full waveform combo tracks. I typically hide away my Instrument tracks in separate track folder, so all my MIDI tracks are together. When I'm editing, I can just concentrate on the MIDI tracks and I'll almost never open the Instrument tracks except for automation, and to double-click them to open the synth. It might take 5secs more to setup, but for the hours of working on a project, they're very handy.