Brad, forgive me, but since you're in the business of selling expensive stuff, it puts you in a position of having potential for a bias towards advocating expensive recording solutions. This may not be the case, but the fact is that if everybody used Pods, your income would likely dwindle dramatically.
Although what you say is indisputable, that the sound of going through amps and preamps and air and room acoustics will sound different, whether that difference is "better" is a judgment call that any musical consumer, with any degree of education (including none), is equally qualified to make.
I can't imagine the typical music consumer would make a buying choice based on signal chain. For anybody to spend oodles of money for a slight auditory difference that won't guarantee an iota of commercial success... that's anybody's choice... but it just seems like diminishing returns to me.
I have a bunch of free music on my site. I challenge any of you experts to listen to the guitars and tell me (with authority) whether they were recorded direct or whether I miked the amp. Hint: There's about a 60:40 ratio of direct to miked.
http://jamesphilipcurtis.com/music.html
You're also welcome to tell me how crappy the music is and how lousy we play.
Recording rock guitar chain
Moderator: James Steele
Forum rules
Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
-
BradLyons
- Posts: 2635
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: Windows
- Location: Atlanta, GA
- Contact:
Jim,
I can understand your hesitation about my input and advice, but let me tell you I NEVER put my wallet in front of what is right for someone to use.
I will fully admit I can be VERY BIASED towards gear, but that is coming solely from my experience with the product either in the studio or on-stage, as well as those experiences I draw-in with other clients and colleagues in the industry...NOT the commission or profit--that's not doing my clients justice nor is it honest to do, both of which I have full respect of. It's the same reason's why we choose to mike a real drum kit instead of using digital drums or a drum-machine, why we mike a real piano instead of using a synth imitating one, or use a real orchstra instead of using VSL.
There are many clients I work with that a Pod, GT8, Valvetronix, etc is ideal and if it is in their case...I'll recommend that. But I work with many very high-profile artists, major studios, producers, serious guitar players, engineers, etc that insist on having a "golden" channel of recording and refuse to touch a processor when recording. There's a whole world of users out there and thankfully, there are many solutions for all the different needs
In the past, I've recording with (3) POD's and a Rocktron Prophesy. Man, I love the Prophesy. Visit www.spectreusa.com and that's the Prophesy if you listen to the music there. For how we were recording, miking cabs and and amp sounded better to us...but it was far too much work to do.
I can understand your hesitation about my input and advice, but let me tell you I NEVER put my wallet in front of what is right for someone to use.
I will fully admit I can be VERY BIASED towards gear, but that is coming solely from my experience with the product either in the studio or on-stage, as well as those experiences I draw-in with other clients and colleagues in the industry...NOT the commission or profit--that's not doing my clients justice nor is it honest to do, both of which I have full respect of. It's the same reason's why we choose to mike a real drum kit instead of using digital drums or a drum-machine, why we mike a real piano instead of using a synth imitating one, or use a real orchstra instead of using VSL. There are many clients I work with that a Pod, GT8, Valvetronix, etc is ideal and if it is in their case...I'll recommend that. But I work with many very high-profile artists, major studios, producers, serious guitar players, engineers, etc that insist on having a "golden" channel of recording and refuse to touch a processor when recording. There's a whole world of users out there and thankfully, there are many solutions for all the different needs
In the past, I've recording with (3) POD's and a Rocktron Prophesy. Man, I love the Prophesy. Visit www.spectreusa.com and that's the Prophesy if you listen to the music there. For how we were recording, miking cabs and and amp sounded better to us...but it was far too much work to do.
Thank you,
Brad Lyons
db AUDIO & VIDEO
-Systems Advisor, CTS
Brad Lyons
db AUDIO & VIDEO
-Systems Advisor, CTS
Okay, I guess what I have been trying to get at might best be illustrated by a story. I have a friend who is a two-time, national, bluegrass, flat-picking champion. This guy is unbelievable on a Martin acoustic. He can also sound good on an clean archtop. He even plays a little electric from time to time.
Now, because he is of a certain age, he has some electric, guitar-star lust. We have played together on a couple of occasions where he has plugged into my Marshall, turned it up, and flailed away. He sounded terrible. I'm not kidding! If you heard him playing through a loud, overdriven amp, you would think he was a bedroom player with a slightly advanced melodic pallete at best. This man has a masterful control over the acoustical properties of a guitar and none whatsoever over an amp. Bring him into the control room, turn everything way, way down, run him straight to the board, and mute the channel so that he just hears the sound of the strings, and he plays much better.
I have also seen people who can wail through their personal Marshall or Fender amp with a signature tone that is totally them and have heard them sound horribly generic through a POD.
My point is that each player is unique and all the gear in the world won't mean anything and can even work against you if you are not practiced with it or the artist is not comfortable. I guess my rule might be: if you have a good room, good mics, good preamps, skill using these tools, a good amp, and a good player who is comfortable with that amp, by all means capture that tone. If, on the other hand, even one of those components is missing, go direct or use a POD, Rockman, SansAmp, or whatever.
just my thoughts,
Wayne
Now, because he is of a certain age, he has some electric, guitar-star lust. We have played together on a couple of occasions where he has plugged into my Marshall, turned it up, and flailed away. He sounded terrible. I'm not kidding! If you heard him playing through a loud, overdriven amp, you would think he was a bedroom player with a slightly advanced melodic pallete at best. This man has a masterful control over the acoustical properties of a guitar and none whatsoever over an amp. Bring him into the control room, turn everything way, way down, run him straight to the board, and mute the channel so that he just hears the sound of the strings, and he plays much better.
I have also seen people who can wail through their personal Marshall or Fender amp with a signature tone that is totally them and have heard them sound horribly generic through a POD.
My point is that each player is unique and all the gear in the world won't mean anything and can even work against you if you are not practiced with it or the artist is not comfortable. I guess my rule might be: if you have a good room, good mics, good preamps, skill using these tools, a good amp, and a good player who is comfortable with that amp, by all means capture that tone. If, on the other hand, even one of those components is missing, go direct or use a POD, Rockman, SansAmp, or whatever.
just my thoughts,
Wayne
DP 5.13, Reason 5, Logic 9, Melodyne 3, Live 7, Cubase 4.5, OS 10.5.8 on main desktop, 10.6.3 on laptop. Old analog gear, synths and guitars and heat-belching transformers and tubes.
You've heard me play?markwayne wrote:I have also seen people who can wail through their personal Marshall or Fender amp with a signature tone that is totally them and have heard them sound horribly generic through a POD.
Seriously, you make a good point. For guitar players, the "amp unit of their choice" is part of their instrument. Guitarists work an amp (or amp sim, if that's their kick) just like they do their guitars.