New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Moderators: Frodo, FMiguelez, MIDI Life Crisis
Forum rules
Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
- FMiguelez
- Posts: 8266
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC
New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
They found his work called Pogrebal’naya Pesnya, dedicated to Rimsky-Korsakov.
... under a pile of old papers in a Conservatory...
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/s ... -100-years
Stravinsky is one of my musical heroes. I can't wait to hear it!
... under a pile of old papers in a Conservatory...
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/s ... -100-years
Stravinsky is one of my musical heroes. I can't wait to hear it!
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
---------------------------
"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
---------------------------
"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
- MIDI Life Crisis
- Posts: 26256
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Contact:
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
That big news. I can't wait to hear it as well.
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Awesome!
Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
The Martha Bassett Show broadcast mixer
Tape Op issue 73
DP 11.31
Studio M1 Max OS12.7.3
MOTU 16A and Monitor 8
M1 Pro MBP for remotes and editing
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
The Martha Bassett Show broadcast mixer
Tape Op issue 73
DP 11.31
Studio M1 Max OS12.7.3
MOTU 16A and Monitor 8
M1 Pro MBP for remotes and editing
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15407
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Wow!
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Very good news! I can't believe that there isn't a scan of the manuscript anywhere. I'm going to keep looking.
828x MacOS 14.5 M1 Studio Max 1TB 64G DP11.32
- MIDI Life Crisis
- Posts: 26256
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Contact:
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
And there probably won't be as long as someone can make some $$$ selling it somehow. Damn publishers! LOLcuttime wrote:Very good news! I can't believe that there isn't a scan of the manuscript anywhere. I'm going to keep looking.
- daniel.sneed
- Posts: 2244
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: France
- Contact:
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Waow! Thanx for sharing! Can't wait to see it performed...
dAn Shakin' all over!
DP11.32, OS12.7.5, MacBookPro-i7-3.1Ghz-16GoRam-1ToSSD
Falcon, Kontakt, Ozone, RX, Unisum & Michelangelo, LX480, Sparkverb
Waldorf Iridium & STVC & Blofeld, Kemper Profiler Stage, EWIusb, Studiologic VMK, ControlPad
JBL4326+4312sub, Behringer X32rack
Many mics, mandolins, banjos, guitars, flutes, melodions, xylos, kalimbas...
DP11.32, OS12.7.5, MacBookPro-i7-3.1Ghz-16GoRam-1ToSSD
Falcon, Kontakt, Ozone, RX, Unisum & Michelangelo, LX480, Sparkverb
Waldorf Iridium & STVC & Blofeld, Kemper Profiler Stage, EWIusb, Studiologic VMK, ControlPad
JBL4326+4312sub, Behringer X32rack
Many mics, mandolins, banjos, guitars, flutes, melodions, xylos, kalimbas...
- mhschmieder
- Posts: 11298
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Annandale VA
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
My Russian isn't as strong as it once was, but I think that translates to "Funeral Song".
Edit: I hadn't read the article yet; just the description. I see The Guardian already translated the title further down.
Can't wait to hear it, as Stravinsky is in my top ten as well. Especially as a clarinetist!
Edit: I hadn't read the article yet; just the description. I see The Guardian already translated the title further down.
Can't wait to hear it, as Stravinsky is in my top ten as well. Especially as a clarinetist!
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.6, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
- FMiguelez
- Posts: 8266
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
And you were right. I think it's great that you speak a little Russian. I love the sound of it, and It's one of my favourite languages.mhschmieder wrote:My Russian isn't as strong as it once was, but I think that translates to "Funeral Song".
BTW, one of my favourite top 5 pieces of all time, which I consider a monument to western art and an absolute masterpiece, is Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov - Zhivi I Zdravstvui, the Coronation Scene.
It's so hard to pronounce, What does it mean anyway? I can't find a translation by googling the phrase.
I bet you guys know this piece, but if you don't, do yourself a favour and listen to it. Gorgeous choral writing.
Mike Halloran, I bet you know the opera, since it has some great bass parts!
I understand Rimsky-Korsakov reorchestrated Mussorgsky's version, and frankly, I like Nikolai's version better (the original orchestration didn't seem as well developed and clear).
The music is amazing, but seeing the whole opera must be even better.
This is a YouTube link of the opera. It's not the best version I've heard, but you'll get the idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElR64bqJwIM
This is the CD I have and the one I love:
http://www.amazon.com/Moussorgsky-Zhivi ... B001AUDA4W
This one seems also nice, from the short excerpt I could hear:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/great ... d157515102
And this is a representation of the opera, and I think this is with Mussorgsky's original version. Now that I heard it, I take back what I said about his orchestration. For the stage full performance of the opera it works great! (but I still prefer Rimsky's).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70RIWenSlns
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
---------------------------
"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
---------------------------
"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
- FMiguelez
- Posts: 8266
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
I just found this from the libretto:
Zhivi i zdravstvui, batya! -------> Stay alive and well, father!
http://www.elnitsky.com/khovanschina.html
Zhivi i zdravstvui, batya! -------> Stay alive and well, father!
http://www.elnitsky.com/khovanschina.html
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
---------------------------
"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.
---------------------------
"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
- monkey man
- Posts: 13960
- Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Is there anything this man can't do? LOLmhschmieder wrote:My Russian isn't as strong as it once was...
Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack
Pretend I've placed your favourite quote here
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15407
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Safe bet. I expected to be learning it before life got in my way and had taken classes in Russian to help in that effort....I bet you guys know this piece, but if you don't, do yourself a favour and listen to it. Gorgeous choral writing. Mike Halloran, I bet you know the opera, since it has some great bass parts!
There are three versions that are performed in the repertoire. The view was that Mussorgski's original wasn't able to be performed and many have had a go at rearranging or recomposing it. Rimsky-Korsakov's is the best known and for decades, was the only one performed.
In the 1970s, the Met decided to perform the original as the composer wrote it. This had never been done before. It's long, complex and contains some of the most fantastic choral work ever written. I first saw that, uncut, in San Francisco with James Morris in the title role about 20 years ago and was blown away. Morris is one of my favorite actors on the opera stage which didn't hurt. I think it is the most performed version nowadays and most companies make major cuts to get it to a reasonable length. Better that than any of the rearranged versions, IMO.
Shostakovich rearranged it, also to 'correct' all of the composer's many mistakes -- he actually says so in his autobiography which I have read. When San Francisco did it a few years ago, I could only wonder 'why?'. I thought it a pale imitation of the real deal and not even as good as Rimsky's. It's ok with me if SFO never does that again.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- mhschmieder
- Posts: 11298
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Annandale VA
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
It's funny, how the translations are usually brought into the local idiom vs. directly translated. I like it both ways, as it tends to show many facets of the same story.
A more literal translation would be something along the lines of "Live and Prosper, Father", or alternatively "Live and Be Healthy, Father", but actually any of the couplings work and it would generally be contextual as to which would be semantically correct.
The word transliterated as "zdravstvui" is the root for the most common formal "Hello" greeting in Russian.
The diminutive form of "Father" would unlikely refer to "Priest" even thought he more formal version of the word ("Batska") could be either.
Even today, musical linguists occasionally update an English interpretation of a title. One of the more famous is the switch from "Night on Bald Mountain" to "Night on Bare Mountain". The Russian is "Lysoy" which means "Bald" but in the context of the story many feel that "Bare" is a better fit.
The famous Tintin graphic novels were deliberately translated into each local idiom vs. directly translated. I bought them in several languages as a result. Another recent example of translating into the vernacular is the Blacksad graphic novel series (anthropomorphic "noir" hard-boiled detective fare).
Hmm, I hadn't paid enough attention to the Shostakovitch involvement in the version of Boris Godunov performed by SFO a few years ago, which I was shocked to have disliked. Even though my all-time favorite opera ("Lady Macbeth of Mtensk") is an original by Shostakovitch, that doesn't guarantee that I like it when a favorite composer mucks with another's work (another example might be Mozart's "update" of Handel's "Messiah").
At any rate, I've always been intrigued by the relationship of the Soviet composers and how many of them served as sort of a "tag team" at times.
A more literal translation would be something along the lines of "Live and Prosper, Father", or alternatively "Live and Be Healthy, Father", but actually any of the couplings work and it would generally be contextual as to which would be semantically correct.
The word transliterated as "zdravstvui" is the root for the most common formal "Hello" greeting in Russian.
The diminutive form of "Father" would unlikely refer to "Priest" even thought he more formal version of the word ("Batska") could be either.
Even today, musical linguists occasionally update an English interpretation of a title. One of the more famous is the switch from "Night on Bald Mountain" to "Night on Bare Mountain". The Russian is "Lysoy" which means "Bald" but in the context of the story many feel that "Bare" is a better fit.
The famous Tintin graphic novels were deliberately translated into each local idiom vs. directly translated. I bought them in several languages as a result. Another recent example of translating into the vernacular is the Blacksad graphic novel series (anthropomorphic "noir" hard-boiled detective fare).
Hmm, I hadn't paid enough attention to the Shostakovitch involvement in the version of Boris Godunov performed by SFO a few years ago, which I was shocked to have disliked. Even though my all-time favorite opera ("Lady Macbeth of Mtensk") is an original by Shostakovitch, that doesn't guarantee that I like it when a favorite composer mucks with another's work (another example might be Mozart's "update" of Handel's "Messiah").
At any rate, I've always been intrigued by the relationship of the Soviet composers and how many of them served as sort of a "tag team" at times.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.6, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15407
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Funny, I was going to bring up the Mozart/Handel comparison but I felt it would be too obscure. Can't get anything past you!mhschmieder wrote:?..
Hmm, I hadn't paid enough attention to the Shostakovitch involvement in the version of Boris Godunov performed by SFO a few years ago, which I was shocked to have disliked. Even though my all-time favorite opera ("Lady Macbeth of Mtensk") is an original by Shostakovitch, that doesn't guarantee that I like it when a favorite composer mucks with another's work (another example might be Mozart's "update" of Handel's "Messiah").
At any rate, I've always been intrigued by the relationship of the Soviet composers and how many of them served as sort of a "tag team" at times.
I have to be careful here -- people in glass houses and all... My most performed work is a reorchestration of "Messiah" for sing-along performances. I'm working on a redo of Gay's "The Beggar's Opera" for the summer of 2017.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.5 b4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- mhschmieder
- Posts: 11298
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Annandale VA
Re: New Stravinsky work found after 100 years!
Hmm, keep me in the loop on "The Beggar's Opera". Beggars can't be choosers, after all.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.6, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager
Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH