NAMM 2015: DP9

[Shooshie]

This is a confusing nomenclature issue in DP. We have a Track Selector that doesn't Select tracks but Shows/Hides them in edit windows except in the Tracks Window. The custom Groups window is the only place where Show/Hide is used, the clearer name IMO.

FWIW this is not the only confusing nomenclature in DP. DP has Instrument tracks but they only host a vi and not MIDI as well unlike other daws where Instrument tracks host the vi and the MIDI to drive it.

Some of us — maybe most of us — see this as a bonus, not a drawback. I abhor using DAWs where one track does it all. That ain't the way I think. Also, I put all my instruments in V-Racks. But this borders on a debate that's been going on since V-Racks were invented, in which one side argues "but V-Racks don't take automation!" and the other side points out all the ways you can automate VIs in V-Racks, and/or the audio return you get back from them through an Aux, and both sides end up agreeing to let the other side like it the way they want it without saying "you're wrong! I'm Right!"

Shoosh

[frankf]

I know you're joking, but if the tech is there to make this happen, I'm seriously all for it.
DP "insert time signature 3-4 at bar 12”, DP "set Memory Start at wiper", DP "make time range selection from bar 9 to 17”, etc, etc. Me, I'm drooling. It would be great for users who need assistive help also.


Frank Ferrucci

[musicman691]

This is a confusing nomenclature issue in DP. We have a Track Selector that doesn't Select tracks but Shows/Hides them in edit windows except in the Tracks Window. The custom Groups window is the only place where Show/Hide is used, the clearer name IMO.

FWIW this is not the only confusing nomenclature in DP. DP has Instrument tracks but they only host a vi and not MIDI as well unlike other daws where Instrument tracks host the vi and the MIDI to drive it.

Some of us — maybe most of us — see this as a bonus, not a drawback. I abhor using DAWs where one track does it all. That ain't the way I think. Also, I put all my instruments in V-Racks. But this borders on a debate that's been going on since V-Racks were invented, in which one side argues "but V-Racks don't take automation!" and the other side points out all the ways you can automate VIs in V-Racks, and/or the audio return you get back from them through an Aux, and both sides end up agreeing to let the other side like it the way they want it without saying "you're wrong! I'm Right!"

Shoosh

I knew you'd say something like this

Like you said you have your own way of working an others have theirs. The nice thing with daw's that have instrument tracks is you can still do it your way but you also have the option of using an Instrument track. It's all about options and not being forced to work a particular way. Maybe we'll get true instrument tracks in DP9 along with the other changes (some of which have been shown at NAMM). Hope springs eternal

As to V-Racks I have yet to see the advantage for the workflow that I use because I never have two different MIDI lines accessing the same instrument. I'm a one MIDI track/one instrument kind of guy unless I'm using multiple articulations of something like a trumpet where I have one vi that has multiple articulations loaded fed by multiple MIDI tracks. But again, that's my workflow and I acknowledge each has their own way.

[Killahurts]

The mixer does need a little revamping.. it's time. Some of the limitations mentioned here are mitigated for me though, by using the Channelstrip, I love that thing!

As far as the MIDI/VI thing, I like DP's approach. I just wish I could select some MIDI tracks, and freeze or merge the virtual instruments they play, into audio tracks.. whether they're in tracks or in a V-Rack. No complex routing, no manually setting up busses, no having to group MIDI and VI tracks together in order to select them, and no manually disabling the MIDI/VI after the audio is rendered. What a chore!

It should be, "I'm ready to render this MIDI I've selected, playing whatever instrument it plays, in its track or V-Rack, to audio- and here's the button that does it!"

DP9 does look to have some really cool new features though.. I'm excited about it, but not in a hurry. DP8 is running very stable for me!

[musicman691]

The mixer does need a little revamping.. it's time. Some of the limitations mentioned here are mitigated for me though, by using the Channelstrip, I love that thing!

As far as the MIDI/VI thing, I like DP's approach. I just wish I could select some MIDI tracks, and freeze or merge the virtual instruments they play, into audio tracks.. whether they're in tracks or in a V-Rack. No complex routing, no manually setting up busses, no having to group MIDI and VI tracks together in order to select them, and no manually disabling the MIDI/VI after the audio is rendered. What a chore!

It should be, "I'm ready to render this MIDI I've selected, playing whatever instrument it plays, in its track or V-Rack, to audio- and here's the button that does it!"

DP9 does look to have some really cool new features though.. I'm excited about it, but not in a hurry. DP8 is running very stable for me!

What you're asking for is something that Sonar has been doing for years, since at least Sonar 5 IIRC (been a long time since I used the program). About the only manual thing you might want do is select a little more time at the end of the MIDI track to account for reverb or other fx tails.

[bayswater]

Maybe we'll get true instrument tracks in DP9 along with the other changes (some of which have been shown at NAMM). Hope springs eternal

If a single track is a "true instrument track", I hope not, unless its an new option.

As to V-Racks I have yet to see the advantage for the workflow that I use because I never have two different MIDI lines accessing the same instrument.

Different MIDI lines accessing the same instrument is not much of an advantage. Multiple sequences accessing the same VI is. I don't do much of either, but one advantage is that you can turn a V-Rack off. Your template can have several V-Racks, all turned off, with routing etc, all set up and ready to turn on as needed.

[mikehalloran]

MOTU has announced that the MIDI-VI workflow is due for changes in DP 9:
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/motu-demos-from-namm-2015

[bayswater]

MOTU has announced that the MIDI-VI workflow is due for changes in DP 9:
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/motu-demos-from-namm-2015

What did you see there? The topics in Dave's videos I saw are:

Add Tracks Wizard,
Automation Lanes,
Spectral Display,
Project Notepad,
XML Notation Export,
MX 4,
1176,
POG,
Mutron,
Remote MIDI Control, and
Megasynth

[cowtothesky]

The mixer does need a little revamping.. it's time. Some of the limitations mentioned here are mitigated for me though, by using the Channelstrip, I love that thing!

As far as the MIDI/VI thing, I like DP's approach. I just wish I could select some MIDI tracks, and freeze or merge the virtual instruments they play, into audio tracks.. whether they're in tracks or in a V-Rack. No complex routing, no manually setting up busses, no having to group MIDI and VI tracks together in order to select them, and no manually disabling the MIDI/VI after the audio is rendered. What a chore!

It should be, "I'm ready to render this MIDI I've selected, playing whatever instrument it plays, in its track or V-Rack, to audio- and here's the button that does it!"

DP9 does look to have some really cool new features though.. I'm excited about it, but not in a hurry. DP8 is running very stable for me!

Amen.

I totally agree with you on the freezing tracks thing. Simplify it and remove steps.

Channelstrip rules!

[musicman691]

MOTU has announced that the MIDI-VI workflow is due for changes in DP 9:
http://www.motu.com/newsitems/motu-demos-from-namm-2015

What did you see there? The topics in Dave's videos I saw are:

Add Tracks Wizard,
Automation Lanes,
Spectral Display,
Project Notepad,
XML Notation Export,
MX 4,
1176,
POG,
Mutron,
Remote MIDI Control, and
Megasynth

Magic Dave also said that what he's showing is not all the new stuff coming in DP9 and that there would be more.

[musicman691]

Maybe we'll get true instrument tracks in DP9 along with the other changes (some of which have been shown at NAMM). Hope springs eternal

If a single track is a "true instrument track", I hope not, unless its an new option.

As to V-Racks I have yet to see the advantage for the workflow that I use because I never have two different MIDI lines accessing the same instrument.

Different MIDI lines accessing the same instrument is not much of an advantage. Multiple sequences accessing the same VI is. I don't do much of either, but one advantage is that you can turn a V-Rack off. Your template can have several V-Racks, all turned off, with routing etc, all set up and ready to turn on as needed.

Like I said - every daw that has 'true' instrument tracks still has the option of doing it the old way. A developer wouldn't really be able to strip out the old functionality or else risk not being able to work in old projects/sessions.

I'm not a big user of templates as I find that after a while it makes things sound stale. I prefer to start with an essentially blank slate like a composer would start with a blank sheet of paper with just staff lines on it. Heck - not even my two-buss at the end has the same plugins on it every time. I tried working with templates but found I actually spent more time stripping out stuff I didn't need - not a fan of having a bloated session with unused stuff in it, even if it is de-activated. But hey - that's me.

[Morpheo]

I'm not a big user of templates as I find that after a while it makes things sound stale. I prefer to start with an essentially blank slate like a composer would start with a blank sheet of paper with just staff lines on it. Heck - not even my two-buss at the end has the same plugins on it every time. I tried working with templates but found I actually spent more time stripping out stuff I didn't need - not a fan of having a bloated session with unused stuff in it, even if it is de-activated. But hey - that's me.

My template only inlcudes a given number of audio/stereo/MIDI tracks, empty instrument tracks in the V-Rack routed to their respective busses and specific windows position (2 monitors...). Like you my plugins are rarely the same from one project to another. But it's still a big time saver

[bayswater]

[Magic Dave also said that what he's showing is not all the new stuff coming in DP9 and that there would be more.

Yes, but where did MOTU say "MIDI-VI workflow is due for changes in DP 9"

[musicman691]

[Magic Dave also said that what he's showing is not all the new stuff coming in DP9 and that there would be more.

Yes, but where did MOTU say "MIDI-VI workflow is due for changes in DP 9"

You could take the automation lanes add as a change in MIDI/vi workflow. Personally that would be a biggie for me instead of having things overlayed in the track as it is now.

[jloeb]

As far as the MIDI/VI thing, I like DP's approach. I just wish I could select some MIDI tracks, and freeze or merge the virtual instruments they play, into audio tracks.. whether they're in tracks or in a V-Rack. No complex routing, no manually setting up busses, no having to group MIDI and VI tracks together in order to select them, and no manually disabling the MIDI/VI after the audio is rendered. What a chore!

It should be, "I'm ready to render this MIDI I've selected, playing whatever instrument it plays, in its track or V-Rack, to audio- and here's the button that does it!"

Amen.

I totally agree with you on the freezing tracks thing. Simplify it and remove steps.

The problem with implementing a "Big easy button that removes complexity" thing is that it always reduces flexibility. At the end of the day, that also ultimately reduces clarity because it creates more exceptions. At least, I've never seen otherwise.

The reason we hear such a "Its so easy! / But how the heck do I...?" dichotomy for DAWs like Logic is precisely this.

DP's design is principle-driven and as fenceless as possible. Understand the principle of organization, and you get it. That's why I love it.

Want one-click freezing? You can pretty much have it in DP. Set up Track folders as standard practice with your VIs. Drop associated MIDI tracks in that folder as you create them or just save the setup as a template. Highlight folder, shift-ctrl-F. Frozen.

Myself, I don't even bother to do this since I find it unmentionably trivial to command-click the VI and whatever MIDI track/s I want to freeze on that pass and hit shift-ctrl-F (and I frequently don't want all of them to render on a single pass so that I can effect them distinctly). So fast, so flexible. And consistent, using simple principles that let you build the environment you want.

YMMV.

for releasing DP9 does not vary, however.