MAS version of VEPro pulled. Going back into beta

[Michael Canavan]

Just a guess, but VST3's show up in a different folder in the Plug Ins folder, they seem to be incompatible with VST2.4

That's not just a guess as any of us who own Antares plugins can verify. Antares AUs are barely compatible with DP 8 (Antares cautions us to test everything first) and decent support is non-existant. The VST 3 versions are incompatible and there is no other VST set.

The other way around is what I was guessing about, of course VST3 versions don't work in hosts that don't support VST3, but do VST3 versions work in place of VST2.4 versions in hosts that support VST3? I couldn't answer that, I don't know anybody running Cubase that owns any VST3 plug ins or isn't running it on an ancient machine.

[kelldammit]

VST2 & 3 are completely separate animals, at least on PC. You cannot use one in place of the other.
They're not interchangeable in either direction, as the architecture is apparently very different (auto-selection of mono vs stereo channels, explicitly defined sidechain support, and per-note expression in vst3 are a few of the differences that probably wouldn't translate).
AFIAK, you can still use vst2 plugs in cubase, but you have to install the vst2 version.

[Michael Canavan]

VST2 & 3 are completely separate animals, at least on PC. You cannot use one in place of the other.
They're not interchangeable in either direction, as the architecture is apparently very different (auto-selection of mono vs stereo channels, explicitly defined sidechain support, and per-note expression in vst3 are a few of the differences that probably wouldn't translate).
AFIAK, you can still use vst2 plugs in cubase, but you have to install the vst2 version.

Yeah that's what I thought, so Apple isn't willing to update AU and have a mass migration to the new version that VST3 is experiencing. <-- Sarcasm.

My guess is Apple isn't going to release AUv2 unless they can figure out a way to make it completely transparent to the end user, since Steinbergs slash and burn policy has resulted in one of the worst adoption rates of any standard that I can think of?

[James Steele]

I agree with every point, and could not have said it better, myself. These are my concerns, too. I can't believe that for the first time I'm actually envying Cubase users a little, and not because MOTU is inattentive to DP, but because Apple has become a wild card. With its attention to mind-blowing designer watches for upscale lifestyles and an Apple car, how many times do you think the words "Audio Units" have crossed Tim Cook's desk in the past 5 years? It's the most profitable damn company on earth, for goodness sake! Who knows what other products are in the pipeline? But one thing seems pretty certain right now: professional multi-media technologies are simply not on the Apple Radar, except for photo-ops with famous people like U2. All of our creative and professional interests — our livelihood — could go away at moment's notice, without so much as a press release.

Agree 100%. I also think MOTU has always been a rather forward-looking company. Most obvious example is how they bet on the native processing power of computers eliminating the need of most user for onboard DSP cards (ala ProTools). I think too, that they saw what was going on at Apple and it was likely what caused them to hedge their bets and finally start porting DP to Windows. I think Windows may be MOTU's insurance policy, much like how Jobs started porting OSX to Intel processors when he saw Motorola's interest in the personal computing market waning. Just speculation on my part, but it makes sense to me.

[Steve Steele]

Hey guys - I'm involved with the current VEP MAS beta. Just wanted to say, go download the current VEP manual and look at page 49.

If you have any questions about the beta, Paul's given me permission to field any questions.

Btw, many of you guys probably know this but I just discovered that MAS can work with up to 48 MIDI ports. Pretty cool.

[Gravity Jim]

And here I thought MIDI was dead. I read it on the Internet.

[Mister Zero]

I understand most aspects of the VEPro 5.4.1 migration and am reading (and re-reading) the page 49 stuff in the manual, but fail to understand something:

What happens to the Event Inputs from previous versions of VEPro that might be in a project? Is an Event Input option included in the MAS plug-in version?

The reason I ask is because I use the Event Inputs to help organize my work and find them very handy.

Thanks for any help with this.

[Steve Steele]

I understand most aspects of the VEPro 5.4.1 migration and am reading (and re-reading) the page 49 stuff in the manual, but fail to understand something:

What happens to the Event Inputs from previous versions of VEPro that might be in a project? Is an Event Input option included in the MAS plug-in version?

The reason I ask is because I use the Event Inputs to help organize my work and find them very handy.

Thanks for any help with this.

Good question. I made a Youtube video for you. It's quick and simple but answers your question. Short answer is there is no Event Input for MAS. You need to re-assign your MIDI outputs. But take a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AmSCnZj ... e=youtu.be

Part 2 to my last video will be out in a couple of days.

[Killahurts]

...but because Apple has become a wild card. With its attention to mind-blowing designer watches for upscale lifestyles and an Apple car, how many times do you think the words "Audio Units" have crossed Tim Cook's desk in the past 5 years? It's the most profitable damn company on earth, for goodness sake! Who knows what other products are in the pipeline? But one thing seems pretty certain right now: professional multi-media technologies are simply not on the Apple Radar, except for photo-ops with famous people like U2. All of our creative and professional interests — our livelihood — could go away at moment's notice, without so much as a press release.

Thanks for hitting on my deepest fears.

Frankly, I've been with Apple for so long, I think having to move to a different OS would be very damaging to my productivity. I was glad when MOTU released a Windows version, "Just in case."

But I don't think I'm alone, and I think Apple, and even Cook himself know the importance of content creation, maybe better than any company out there. If we're not creating some incredible new stuff, they can't sell their gizmos as easily. Gizmos are the present, content is the future, the Apple model.

[Killahurts]

Not withstanding, of course, the people sitting around typing with their thumbs all day, instead of just talking on the damn phone.

I don't consider that content creation though.

[Shooshie]

Reading my own words, I have to conclude: I worry too much about things that I cannot control, and that probably will never happen. There will be time to worry WHEN it happens, IF it happens. And I doubt that day will ever come. I think when we settled on Apple for our computers, we got ourselves a company for life. Let the Apple Watch come, and let the Urbanites wear them. Life will go on as it always did.

Shoosh

[Michael Canavan]

Just an odd observation, it seems that now since Apple has become the wealthiest corporation in the world we worry more about them abandoning the niche markets that secured their position as the creative boutique computer manufacturers. Audio, photo and video have always been 50% at least Apple dominated even when Apple was on the verge of collapse before Jobs came back.


So, Apple dying-nobody is worried and we soldier on, Apple doing the best it's ever done- we worry that they will drop one of their billion dollar plus industries in favor of the iPhone.

[Mister Zero]

I understand most aspects of the VEPro 5.4.1 migration and am reading (and re-reading) the page 49 stuff in the manual, but fail to understand something:

What happens to the Event Inputs from previous versions of VEPro that might be in a project? Is an Event Input option included in the MAS plug-in version?

The reason I ask is because I use the Event Inputs to help organize my work and find them very handy.

Thanks for any help with this.

Good question. I made a Youtube video for you. It's quick and simple but answers your question. Short answer is there is no Event Input for MAS. You need to re-assign your MIDI outputs. But take a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AmSCnZj ... e=youtu.be

Part 2 to my last video will be out in a couple of days.

Wow, thanks so much for that! It helped a whole lot. I had no problem converting a big template over to VEPro MAS today. All the care I took organizing each grouping of instruments into specific Event Inputs carried over perfectly with VEPro MAS.

Isn't it nice when things just work?

[comp15]

From Paul at VSL:

"We have decided to pull VE PRO from MyDownloads and roll back to the previous version until we have fixed the AU/MAS confusion (working on it with high pressure, and it is looking good).

If you´d like to roll back, please use the VE PRO Uninstaller, this way the MAS plug-in will be completely removed.
I will let you know as soon as the update is available!"

Some further explanation from Paul... "I thought I´d keep you in the loop, this is the current situation we´re facing: DP forces the use of MAS over AU even in an AU saved project, so it will not be able to load the data.

In other words: MAS automatically overrides AU, resulting in project data incompatibility. A project saved with VE PRO AU should be loaded with the MAS plugin version disabled.

The best way to migrate existing songs is to disable the MAS plugin in DP, load the project, preserve the instances, reload the project with MAS plugin enabled again, then reconnect the VE PRO instances.

Of course if the instances are already preserved (which we assume will be the case with most songs), reconnecting the individual VE PRO plugins will do the trick.

We´re in touch with MOTU and hope that we can find a better solution for migration. "

Source: http://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m2 ... post235668

I've had no problems, but it's good to see VSL and MOTU working so hard together. Maybe this is a rebirth for MAS. The timing is perfect. Developers are upset with the AU spec and lack of documentation, and then the VST3 issues. MAS is now cross-platform correct?

Maybe now is a good time to email your favorite developer and plead our case for MAS development. I plan on contacting Steven Slate personally. They've been through it with AAX. But now that that's done, why not MAS?

Keep it positive!

So does this mean it's back to 16 MIDI Ports per instance? I just downloaded VEPro last thursday, and it appears that the MAS plug-in is still included, because MAS was included on the list of formats during the installation process...

[Steve Steele]

From Paul at VSL:

"We have decided to pull VE PRO from MyDownloads and roll back to the previous version until we have fixed the AU/MAS confusion (working on it with high pressure, and it is looking good).

If you´d like to roll back, please use the VE PRO Uninstaller, this way the MAS plug-in will be completely removed.
I will let you know as soon as the update is available!"

Some further explanation from Paul... "I thought I´d keep you in the loop, this is the current situation we´re facing: DP forces the use of MAS over AU even in an AU saved project, so it will not be able to load the data.

In other words: MAS automatically overrides AU, resulting in project data incompatibility. A project saved with VE PRO AU should be loaded with the MAS plugin version disabled.

The best way to migrate existing songs is to disable the MAS plugin in DP, load the project, preserve the instances, reload the project with MAS plugin enabled again, then reconnect the VE PRO instances.

Of course if the instances are already preserved (which we assume will be the case with most songs), reconnecting the individual VE PRO plugins will do the trick.

We´re in touch with MOTU and hope that we can find a better solution for migration. "

Source: http://www.vsl.co.at/community/posts/m2 ... post235668

I've had no problems, but it's good to see VSL and MOTU working so hard together. Maybe this is a rebirth for MAS. The timing is perfect. Developers are upset with the AU spec and lack of documentation, and then the VST3 issues. MAS is now cross-platform correct?

Maybe now is a good time to email your favorite developer and plead our case for MAS development. I plan on contacting Steven Slate personally. They've been through it with AAX. But now that that's done, why not MAS?

Keep it positive!

So does this mean it's back to 16 MIDI Ports per instance? I just downloaded VEPro last thursday, and it appears that the MAS plug-in is still included, because MAS was included on the list of formats during the installation process...

What version do you have?