Record automation is acting weirdly

[MDesigner]

Might be tough to explain, so here's a video:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/121 ... 20Auto.mp4

After I hit stop, why does the volume automation jump back up like that? I'd expect it to just simply stop when I hit stop. I can't figure out why it's doing this. There's no automation data after that point, so I'm not really sure what it's ramping up to exactly. Only in Overwrite mode does it just leave off exactly where I left the fader when I hit stop.

But maybe DP's latch mode works differently than other sequencers?

[Shooshie]

I can't speak for the sequencer you last used, but that is correct mixer behavior.

• • Touch mode holds until you release the fader, then returns to starting position.
  • Latch mode holds until you stop playback, then returns to starting position.
  • Overwrite mode doesn't return to the starting position, which it has overwritten.

That is correct mixing board behavior.

Again, a little research would have revealed this to you.
If you have a question, such as "why does automation work this way?" then please do ask, but I'd refrain from "maybe DP doesn't work like other DAWs," which implies there is something wrong with DP. DP's not perfect, but it's one of the oldest standards of MIDI and Audio sequencing.

Remember that most other DAWs learned how (or how not) to do things from DP, which is the oldest DAW currently on the market, as far as I know.

Shooshie

[MDesigner]

Different does not equal bad! DP does things differently from many sequencers, but in many ways better. I just use other sequencers as a point of reference and to help illustrate my points.

Also, this forum section rules DO say: "This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs." So I think comparisons and criticism are fair game here.

Back to automation: am I just best using overwrite 100% of the time then? My problem is that when I record an automation, wherever I leave it when I hit stop is where I want it to stay. I don't want to have to ride the fader until the very end of the cue. Let's say I have a horn section that has some automation mostly hovering around 100-110, and in the middle of the cue I want to bring them down to 60. With latch mode, as soon as I hit stop, it's going to jump back up to 110, correct? I suppose the only other solution than using overwrite is to just click the points on the automation graph and delete them, which is certainly no big deal. I was just confused since apparently other sequencers I've been using have been implementing latch incorrectly.

[frankf]

Sometimes, I've found if easiest to just delete that single automation point which DP places in the track when you stop recording.


Frank Ferrucci

[MDesigner]

That seems to make the most sense and is probably what I'll wind up doing.

[rockitcity]

In "at least one" other DAW, there is a function to "write to end" on stop. This would keep your automation at the last written state when you resumed playback. You can mimic this function in DP by going to the last written automation and taking a snapshot at that point. There is a pop up list that will allow you to extend current automation to end, (among others.) It's another step, but maybe better than trying to zero in on the automation point you wish to delete. And, don't forget, you'd need to delete that point an ALL automation parameters written which could be quite a chore.

[MDesigner]

Thanks! Didn't know about that. Are you talking about snapshot automation as mentioned on page 802 in the manual?

[Shooshie]

I was just confused since apparently other sequencers I've been using have been implementing latch incorrectly.

However they implement it is by choice, which means it's correct for them. As you say, "different" doesn't necessarily equal "bad."

But just think through it logically:

Touch editing starts with what's there, changes it until you release the fader, and then goes back to the original path.
Latch editing starts with the original path, changes it as long as it is playing, but stops editing when you hit Stop. If it stops editing, it returns to the original path. That path is defined as "where the fader would be if you had not edited anything." It doesn't necessarily mean there were any control points other than the one at the beginning of the track. So, DP has to insert a control point to represent the path as it would be if no editing had been done.
Overwrite eliminates the path.

If Latch eliminated the path, it would be the same as Overwrite. Why have the two distinctions if there is functionally no difference between them? I think there is a way to continue the automation to the end, but I don't remember if I dreamed that or if it's real. You can always just erase the remaining automation points.

Anyway, my point is that logically DP uses the three modes of automation editing correctly. If other DAWs say "Latch" when they're really overwriting, well, that's their choice. You get used to whatever you're using.

Shooshie

[rockitcity]

...Touch editing starts with what's there, changes it until you release the fader, and then goes back to the original path.
Latch editing starts with the original path, changes it as long as it is playing, but stops editing when you hit Stop. If it stops editing, it returns to the original path. That path is defined as "where the fader would be if you had not edited anything." It doesn't necessarily mean there were any control points other than the one at the beginning of the track. So, DP has to insert a control point to represent the path as it would be if no editing had been done.
Overwrite eliminates the path.

If Latch eliminated the path, it would be the same as Overwrite. Why have the two distinctions if there is functionally no difference between them? I think there is a way to continue the automation to the end, but I don't remember if I dreamed that or if it's real. You can always just erase the remaining automation points.

Anyway, my point is that logically DP uses the three modes of automation editing correctly. If other DAWs say "Latch" when they're really overwriting, well, that's their choice. You get used to whatever you're using.

Shooshie

Doesn't Overwrite only work on the area being played at the time? I don't think it eliminates any existing automation to the end of the sequence. Latch automation keeps everything the same as existing unless changed, and then holds those changes until stopped. So you could have say, EQ automation and change the fader value, but the EQ would remain the same. On stop the fader would ramp back to the existing value. (That's probably what you said...)

If you know the command for "Write to end" I would love to know it, as I would use it a lot. Would save a lot of snapshots.

Thanks.

[Timeline]

If you know the command for "Write to end" I would love to know it, as I would use it a lot. Would save a lot of snapshots.

Thanks.

God i wish!!!!