MIDI Control Surfaces yet?

[treatment]

Hey folks!

Wondering if anyone has any info on whether DP has finally accepted that the people of the world would like to be able to attach MIDI control surfaces to control the software.
Last I checked ( a long time ago) all control surfaces had to be Baby Hui / Mackie control protocol. Can someone please confirm if this still holds true?

This has been on my "wish list" for a long time.
Thoughts?
Treatment

[4stripes]

There aren't many dedicated mixer surfaces that don't use HUI or MCU. All DAWs that allow mixer surfaces use one of these two protocols.

[NazRat]

DP has added OSC and so far MOTU DP Control, Neyrinck V-Control Pro (and free), plus other OSC/HUI/MCU based controllers for the iPad and Android work. Others here have been using the Eucon stuff for a while, but not sure how that's working since Avid bought them. I also think there are a couple of SSL users lurking about. AlphaTrack works in both 32 bit and 64 bit Mac only (separate profile purchase required for 64 bit) if you only need a single fader to ride every now and then. You should have a few options. If you're talking about M-Audio, etc. it's usually up to the manufacturers to develop profiles to work with different apps and their protocols, i.e. Hypercontrol.

[Killahurts]

Seems like controllers based on the iPad are all the rage now, using all the protocols mentioned before. The new Slate Digital touchscreen thingys use MCU also, if I'm not mistaken.

My system uses MCU. I had Eucon before (when they were Euphonix), which was way more robust and a much better protocol, IMO. But alas, they are Avid now, so unless you use Pro Tools, they hate you and do not want their products to work optimally for you. Period.

Hey, do you guys remember the Tascam 2400? What an awesome controller that was.. too bad no one ever made another one like that!

[James Steele]

There aren't many dedicated mixer surfaces that don't use HUI or MCU. All DAWs that allow mixer surfaces use one of these two protocols.

^ This!

[treatment]

4atripes: Google “MIDI Controller” and then tell me that more than 5% of these work with DP.
Killahurts: I recognize your point, however: Not everyone owns an iPad, and not everyone WANTS one. I’m old skul: I grew up in front of mixing desks and analog tape. I don’t like controlling knobs and faders with my index finger on a touch screen, nor with a mouse.
Thanks NazRat, that is the answer I was looking for: hard facts, rather than opinions.
I had a Behringer BCF 2000 which I used with DP for awhile, clients were impressed with the motorized faders. But truth be told, I don't need PAN controls, I need AUX SEND controls, know what I mean!? I hate the Mackie protocal stuff, because you can't CHANGE any of it.
I have an Akai APC40 which was designed to be used with Ableton Live. Guess what? It works like a charm on Apple Mainstage, Logic, Resolume Avenue, Ableton Live, and Reason. I can assign ANYTHING to ANYTHING.(just about)
I am not going to debate that DP is the finest DAW out there, because it’s only an opinion.
What is NOT an opinion, is that DP is seriously falling behind it’s competitors on this front, and it’s EMBARASSING.

Treatment

[Gravity Jim]

Boy, some attitude on you, huh?

How is 4stripes initial reply "There aren't many dedicated mixer surfaces that don't use HUI or MCU. All DAWs that allow mixer surfaces use one of these two protocols," an opinion and not a hard fact? Because it is a fact.

I just did your google search. Yes, DP works with way more than 5 percent.

ALso, this: "...DP is seriously falling behind it’s competitors on this front, and it’s EMBARASSING," is an opinion, and a misinformed and overly emotional one at that. Who's embarrassed? You? Get over it.

You seem to be using the term "MIDI controller" in a different sense than "keyboard" or "control surface," and angry with people trying to help that they can't read your mind. What are you talking about, precisely? My Arturia 25 works great through DP, knobs and all. Just what are you trying to achieve that you think you can't do in DP?

[4stripes]

You're not asking the right question duder.

. . . would like to be able to attach MIDI control surfaces to control the software . . .

The definition of a control surface is a dedicated device with faders, pan pots, sends, and transport. It is not a generic MIDI device with random buttons and knobs that have no dedicated purpose. This is generally accepted and if you say one thing but mean another you are liable to create confusion.

The following control surfaces all work with DP, and aux send knobs are part of the protocol:

1. Baby HUI
2. Mackie HUI
3. Mackie Control Universal
4. Mackie Control Universal Pro
5. Several iCon surfaces
6. All Yamaha digital studio consoles (DM and O series)
7. M-Audio Project Mix
8. Zoom R series
9. SSL Nucleus
10. SSL Matrix
11. SSL AWS
12. SSL Duality

I am sure there are others. If you want to find them, search for HUI, MCU, or Mackie Control surfaces, not "MIDI controller," that would be too generic when you are looking for a control surface. If you don't like any of the dozens available, you can roll your own with MIDI commands like anything else.

[mikehalloran]

Well, I would like it if anyone had current drivers for the JL Cooper CS-32 USB. It would work with the Mackie protocol if there were drivers for the Intel Mac. Although officially supported through DP 4.1, I had it working w/ DP 7.24 over OS 10.6.8 w/ Rosetta. I'm not going back to 10.6 just to make this work, however. Having 32 mechanical faders, 6 knobs and transport controls on a control surface a little smaller than an iPad was very nice.

[treatment]

Gravity Jim:
The Behringer BCF2000 is NOT a MIDI controller than, it should more aptly be called a control surface. (I stand corrected)
And yes, I AM embarrassed for myself, AND for DP, because outside of ProTools, every other "DAW" out there seems to accept nearly ANY kind of MIDI controller to act as a "control surface."

For example:
My nano pad2 (which is typically used as a drum pad) can be used instead to Mute/Solo channels on Ableton Live, Cubase, Logic, MainStage, and Reason for sure.

4 Stripes:
Excellent info, thank you for this. You mentioned, "rolling your own" using MIDI commands, do you care to explain how this is accomplished in DP? (Does the secret lie in "Console"?)
For example, in my case the MIDI Controller/Control surface is an Akai APC40.
"BUTTON X" sends "Note on/note off" information lets say on C#2. Without diving deep into the Akai to change that to conform to what DP will accept, is there a way that I can tell DP that the "Solo" button on Track 1 should be activated by C#2?

If not, than I rest my case, DP is clearly falling behind the pack, and has been for years on this topic.
Treatment

[James Steele]

If not, than I rest my case, DP is clearly falling behind the pack, and has been for years on this topic.

We're doomed. Must buy Pro Tools tomorrow.

[Gravity Jim]

Hell, even my lowly Tascam DM3200's control surface layer works with DP, using the Mackie protocol. Transport buttons, faders. rotary encoders for pan, bank select, record buttons, jog/shuttle wheel. What's not to like?

[treatment]

Thanks for the help, guys.
Precisely why I frequent this board YEARLY at best.

[James Steele]

Thanks for the help, guys.
Precisely why I frequent this board YEARLY at best.

Clearly someone lacks a sense of humor. *Sigh*. Honestly, I think that you're overestimating the importance of your concern as it relates to the total DP user base. This happens all the time where someone who comes by here YEARLY, does so to raise urgent alarms about some sort of deficiency in DP that is no doubt extremely important to them, but probably not so much to most everyone else.

Yes, some of use who come here more frequently, sometimes get weary of the folks who come here YEARLY just to open topics that seem to imply doom and gloom for DP because it's "falling behind" in a feature that is the be-all and end-all to them.

See you next year. Or not.