Sibelius or Finale - the question is simple

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Originally posted by Matan:
"And 2. entering things in the correct order."
That's exactly the problem right there! The sequence of entering music into Finale is completely different than the sequence of writing.
Noteability is so much more intuitively connected to how I compose. Off course, there are no short cuts- You can't automate orchestrations and so fourth...

This is key! And it will save you many hours once you have a system (especially in a large ensemble).

[David Trainer]

Jason Loffredo said:

In ten years of using Finale, I've actually NEVER found anything that I couldn't put into Finale.

Jason - I too have used Finale for a few years now and actaully quite like it. One thing that it does NOT do well, however, is divisi string parts (think the waltz section of Also Sprach Zarathustra - or just about any of Strauss' big orchestral scores). The first violins play quite happily in one voice, then all of a sudden (as in The Alpine Symphony) he'll suddenly divide them into 8 parts each (often with the two people on the desk with parts). I can't figure how to emulate this EASILY in Finale ... any offers of assistance would be appreciated.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Originally posted by diz:
Jason Loffredo said:

In ten years of using Finale, I've actually NEVER found anything that I couldn't put into Finale.

Jason - I too have used Finale for a few years now and actaully quite like it. One thing that it does NOT do well, however, is divisi string parts (think the waltz section of Also Sprach Zarathustra - or just about any of Strauss' big orchestral scores). The first violins play quite happily in one voice, then all of a sudden (as in The Alpine Symphony) he'll suddenly divide them into 8 parts each (often with the two people on the desk with parts). I can't figure how to emulate this EASILY in Finale ... any offers of assistance would be appreciated.

Divisi parts are best done as layers. But with 8 divisi, you might want to consider adding staves to your system in that section and designating the parts that way. I think there are only 4 layers in Finale, but i haven't had to use that feature for a while. If that is the case, you might have to add a single staff and use 4 layers in each for the eight divisi parts.

<small>[ August 04, 2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: MIDI Life Crisis ]</small>

[loff56]

Originally posted by MIDI Life Crisis:

Originally posted by diz:
Jason Loffredo said:

In ten years of using Finale, I've actually NEVER found anything that I couldn't put into Finale.

Jason - I too have used Finale for a few years now and actaully quite like it. One thing that it does NOT do well, however, is divisi string parts (think the waltz section of Also Sprach Zarathustra - or just about any of Strauss' big orchestral scores). The first violins play quite happily in one voice, then all of a sudden (as in The Alpine Symphony) he'll suddenly divide them into 8 parts each (often with the two people on the desk with parts). I can't figure how to emulate this EASILY in Finale ... any offers of assistance would be appreciated.

Divisi parts are best done as layers. But with 8 divisi, you might want to consider adding staves to your system in that section and designating the parts that way. I think there are only 4 layers in Finale, but i haven't had to use that feature for a while. If that is the case, you might have to add a single staff and use 4 layers in each for the eight divisi parts.

I have to agree here with MIDI. For starters, I can't imagine putting 8 rhythmically different parts on one staff. Even if you could do it (which by the way I think you can), it would be so cluttered it would be pretty un-readable. A second staff (at least) is the best engraving option. If the parts aren't actually rhythmically different, (or if there are only two or three rhythmically different parts), then you can certainly just use the four layers and actually put in multiple notes in each layers (ie chords if you will), and indicate via instructions (arrows etc.) who's supposed to play what.

By the way, (I just tried it and it works), you can definitely have at least two "voices" per layer, (voices being also rhythmically independant of each other), so therefore, you can actually get 8 rhythmically different parts on one staff. (It's really ugly though).

To switch voices, (while in Speedy entry), enter your first voice, (V1), then go back to the beginning of the measure and hit the single quote key " ' ", then you'll see in the upper left of the entry box that the V1 switches to V2. Then you can repeat that for all four layers.

Anyone else want to stump the Finale Wiz? lol

Jason

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Originally posted by Jason Loffredo:
Anyone else want to stump the Finale Wiz? lol

Jason

OK, which feature in Finale places your score into a feature film that grosses more than 150M. Is there an option that allows you to retain all licensing and artistic control?

I've been asking for this feature for many years and the MakeMusic support staff completely ignores my requests!

[loff56]

Originally posted by MIDI Life Crisis:

Originally posted by Jason Loffredo:
Anyone else want to stump the Finale Wiz? lol

Jason

OK, which feature in Finale places your score into a feature film that grosses more than 150M. Is there an option that allows you to retain all licensing and artistic control?

I've been asking for this feature for many years and the MakeMusic support staff completely ignores my requests!

lol
OK, well, I guess you've stumped me.

But I think the moral is, it takes a little more than just a computer program to be successful in this business. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't MIDI, but sometimes I do feel like other people get the wrong idea that they can just buy there way to a successful career.

What's the point of owning a Ferrari if you don't know how to drive?

[Matan]

got one for you, Jason:
How do I get Finale not to screw up my multi measure rests in parts extraction?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Originally posted by Jason Loffredo:
...it takes a little more than just a computer program to be successful in this business. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't MIDI, but sometimes I do feel like other people get the wrong idea that they can just buy there way to a successful career.

My point EXACTLY, Jason. I've no complaints about how my career has gone and is going. I was a composer WAY before computers were the norm. "Hi tech' was a TEAC 2340 and notation was done by hand. Period. I even saw the very first vocorders and the first (horrible) notation programs back around 1978.

New technology does make it easier to APPEAR talented, and produce a slick product. But take away the high tech tools and examine the MUSIC on its own merits and much of what is played on the air and placed in film will fall apart at the seams.

[loff56]

Originally posted by MIDI Life Crisis:

Originally posted by Jason Loffredo:
...it takes a little more than just a computer program to be successful in this business. Now, I'm not saying that you aren't MIDI, but sometimes I do feel like other people get the wrong idea that they can just buy there way to a successful career.

My point EXACTLY, Jason. I've no complaints about how my career has gone and is going. I was a composer WAY before computers were the norm. "Hi tech' was a TEAC 2340 and notation was done by hand. Period. I even saw the very first vocorders and the first (horrible) notation programs back around 1978.

Oh man, you're gonna hate me now. I definitely do not remember the first notation programs from 1978. In fact I really don't have much of a memory at all of 1978 because, well..., I was only born four months into that year.
I did have an Orchestration professor insist that we were not to use notation programs in his class until our hand written copy work was flawless. Of course, I just did it all in Finale and then traced it with a pencil. lol

[loff56]

Originally posted by Matan:
got one for you, Jason:
How do I get Finale not to screw up my multi measure rests in parts extraction?

I guess that depends on how you define "screw up". When you go to extract the parts there should be a button that says "Multi Measure Rests", which will take you to a dialogue box that will let you define how your mmr's are handled in the extraction. You can decide how many mesures of rest actually warrant using a mmr. In other words if you want mmr's to start only after 3 consecutive bars of rest you can define that. (I'm not looking at it right now, but I think there are some other options you have as well.)

If you're talking about a problem that occurs frequently where, let's say for example the part plays the first 7 bars of an 8 bar phrase, rests for 1, then rests for the next 8 bar phrase, then comes in in the 3rd bar of the next 8 bar phrase, Finale will look at that and put in an 11 bar mmr. Which is not really musically helpful to a musician. They would rather see, a bar of rest, an 8 bar mmr, and a 2 bar mmr before their music comes in again.

To achieve this:
While still in the original score (before extraction), use the measure tool and double click the last bar of the 8 bar phrase, then in the dialogue box, check the option that says "Break Multimeasure Rest", then repeat that for the end of all your 8 bar phrases, or wherever your phrases end.

This is helpful for like a Triangle part that plays one note in a 250 measure piece. You just have to define where your phrases end or Finale might just make one long 176 measure multi measute rest.

If that doesn't answer your question, you'll have to be a little more specific about the problem.

[Jeroleen]

Is there an answer to the question?

[Jeroleen]

Is there an answer to the question?

[adriano]

What about this?
http://debussy.music.ubc.ca/NoteAbility/NAwelcome.html

[dosuna11]

I have been using Sibelius for a year now. After scoring in Notator I found Sibelious to be quite cumbersome. In Notator I could move any part, grab it and place it on any staff. It's cut and paste in Silbelius. I found a way to delete umwanted measures not in the manual but still to add measures is not fun. I have yet to get it to on its's own to split up a keyboard part into the correct staves. It is absolutely terrible at importing standard MIDI files. My first Hybrid Arts progaram was better. The Photo score thing works about 20%. I always end up having to tweak so much that it is just as easy to enter in the data. Their customer service dept was terrible. The metronome in the playback section of Sibelius only goes up so far so if you are writing a fast bop tune..... I found there are many two and three step procedures to get one job done. When I transpose to B and Eb charts the chord symbols and rehearsal marks get WAY out of allignment. Get use to the escape key as you will uses it quite a bit. For basic charts I think Print Music would be just fine. If my handwriting was better I would write charts by hand. It is still faster.