Groove 3 Training Video on DP8 JUST RELEASED and ON SALE

[Eli Krantzberg]

Should have made that more clear I guess. I was talking about multiple windows VS a single window with multiple tracks layered over each other, which if you're looking for an errant early or late MIDI note is going to be overlapped with multiple tracks in a single editor. This is were Logic is going to need to use a multiple piano roll / Matrix editors

Hi Michael,

Not sure I am following. Logic _does_ do this already: display the contents of multiple MIDI tracks within a single Piano Roll View (it hasn't been called "Matrix" since v.7).

But getting back to nightwatch's original question about DP users learning Logic, there' sone thing I want to add:

The thing that most new users coming Logic get confused about is the following: regions in the Arrange Window are actually "containers". They can contain MIDI notes. You can edit the containers in the Arrange Window. You can quantize or transpose, etc the notes within the containers. But to actually edit the contents of the container (the notes themselves) you need to go to another editor window. But to cut copy paste, etc certain sections of the container holding those notes, the Arrange Window is very elegant.

Similarly for audio, the regions (soundbites in DP language) are containers that contain the boundaries of the region that represents a portion of the underlying audio file. You can edit the boundaries of that portion of the audio file in the Arrange Window. You can work with the transients. But to actually edit the underlying audio, you need to go to another edit window (actually this part is the same in DP - you use the waveform editor).

Wheras in DP, the Sequence Editor actually contains the individual notes, not the containers holding them. And the Tracks Overview sort of kind of displays the containers. But they are not necessarily parsed in any meaningful way relating to the way you played in the parts. So you still need to make time range selections to select your data for editing.

Anyway, it's the "container" concept, I find, that new Logic users coming from other DAWs often struggle with at first.

[Michael Canavan]

Hi Michael,

Not sure I am following. Logic _does_ do this already: display the contents of multiple MIDI tracks within a single Piano Roll View (it hasn't been called "Matrix" since v.7)..

Yes, almost any DAW will allow multiple MIDI notes in a single piano roll, that's not what I'm talking about at all. As I've said, if you want to see where an errant MIDI note is early or late, having multiple MIDI notes in the same piano roll is going to overlap that note, and you might not actually see that in track 1 a note is hitting at 1|1|007 while in track 2 it's hitting at 1|1|000 etc. Viewing two piano roll editors is sometimes better than viewing a single editor with multiple tracks, and that's where the Sequence Editor has an advantage over the Arrange.

With Logic (8 and under anyway) you can open multiple Piano Roll style windows and do this.
If you were coming from DP this would seem strange as from what I've observed DP doesn't allow you to open up multiple Piano Roll (Matrix) / MIDI (Graphic) editors of a single Sequence.

[Eli Krantzberg]

if you want to see where an errant MIDI note is early or late, having multiple MIDI notes in the same piano roll is going to overlap that note, and you might not actually see that in track 1 a note is hitting at 1|1|007 while in track 2 it's hitting at 1|1|000 .

Ahh, okay. Now I get you. You can perform this type of edit with the single PRV if you really wanted to, although admittedly, it's not the most elegant.

1. Select the two regions.
2. Open the PRV.
3. It will display the contents of both regions.
4. Zoom in sufficiently to see the overlaps.
5. Double click on one note or the other to temporarily have the PRV display only the contents of that region.
6. Edit the position as necessary.
7. Double click in the background to restore the display to show both region's contents.
8. Double click on the note the other note to display just it's region's notes.
9. Adjust as necessary.

It's really not as bad as it looks in writing Here's another easier way though:

1. Open the PRV to display both region's contents.
2. Zoom in far enough to see the overlaps.
3. Open an Event Flot Window (a single line floating Event List display)
4. Select each of the overlapping notes one at a time and correct the positioning in the Event Float.

That's probably the way I would do it.

[Michael Canavan]

Yeah of course that works, I can see why you would do it that way, but if you're looking for quick and easy information on why a particular hit in a piece of music is off sounding (un quantized is always off of course), then being able to look at multiple tracks with MIDI notes not piled on top of each other is dead easy in DP's Sequence , and only slightly harder to do in Logic. I prefer this method since you may not precisely know where to zoom to.
I will say that while it's more of a PITA to do this in Logic, at least the MIDI notes in logic aren't rounded on the edges making it slightly visually harder to read IMO, and much easier to read in Logic if you choose them colored and all in one PRV. To it's credit again I do vastly prefer the way Logic uses beat and measure lines which also help for this. IMO anyway when you have colored MIDI notes in DP it gets hard to see placement so I prefer to use black on all MIDI notes, so another reason to use the Sequence Editor for this.

Just responding to the conversation about what are major differences in Logic that might get you confused coming from DP.

[denekawa]

Groove 3 just released training videos for DP8 today. The have a sale going.

Check it out. I'm sure we know most of this stuff, but who knows..

http://www.groove3.com/str/Digital-Perf ... ained.html

I purchased both videos and found them to be be extremely valuable as there are several tips and work flow methods Eli expounds on, that really help speed up and clarify work flow. DP is such an expansive DAW, individual methods of operating in it are bound to differ and these videos reveal a different approach than what I am accustomed to and I have incorporated several of his tips into my everyday work methods. Well worth the money especially at this reduced sale price!

[bongo_x]

I’ve been watching the Groove3 DP8 videos and I’m pretty impressed. Really well done.

I’ve been figuring DP out on my own for a few years now and get around pretty good, but thought I would start with the basic series first, just in case I missed anything. Wow. There’s has not been a single video where he didn’t show me something I didn’t know, and often several things.

I really recommend these videos, no filler, just wall to wall useful information laid out in a logical way.

bb