Confused about 64 bit mac and DP8

[apanacci]

Hey guys, just got DP8 and the manual says DP8 starts up in 64 bit unless you choose Get info start in 32 bit. Do I have to start and switch the computer in 64 bit also from 32 bit? Thanks

[vpg]

Hi, you can launch DP8 in 32-bit mode by first going to your Applications folder, locating DP8, and then performing a Get Info (Command-I) on the DP8 app. Once that window opens, you'll just have to select/check the box to the left of where it reads: "Open in 323-bit mode", close the Get Info window, and then launch DP8.

A brief video explanation can be found here:
http://play.macprovideo.com/digitalperf ... w-in-dp8/1

cheers,
Lisa

[Dan Worley]

Hey guys, just got DP8 and the manual says DP8 starts up in 64 bit unless you choose Get info start in 32 bit. Do I have to start and switch the computer in 64 bit also from 32 bit? Thanks

No.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

This is not making sense again. If you don't need to boot in 64 bit mode to run an app in 64 bit, then why do you need to do it at all? I get the extension thing (to some degree) but if you are booted in 32 bit, can you access more than 4GB of RAM in DP? Id on't think you can, but would love to see definitive data on that. Here's a thumbnail of the issues at hand...

The 4GB limit is my biggest issue with DP, BTW, so this is critical.

[Dan Worley]

This is not making sense again. If you don't need to boot in 64 bit mode to run an app in 64 bit, then why do you need to do it at all? I get the extension thing (to some degree) but if you are booted in 32 bit, can you access more than 4GB of RAM in DP? Id on't think you can, but would love to see definitive data on that. Here's a thumbnail of the issues at hand...

The 4GB limit is my biggest issue with DP, BTW, so this is critical.

It seems I was wrong. I've been so confused over this that it's not funny anymore. I've been trying to get a straight answer but everyone seems to just talk around it, or I've not been able to understand what they've been trying to get across. I finally read something that makes sense:

While Mac OS X is able to handle more than 4GB of RAM [running in 32-bit], applications are still limited by the 32-bit address space.
If applications are solely running on 64-bit kernel extension they can use more than 4GB of virtual memory. Also OSX will use 64-bit registers for operations resulting in increased performance.

So it seems to utilize more than 4GB of RAM in a 64-bit application such as DP8, you need to run DP8 in 64-bit and boot to the 64-bit kernel.

I'm going to stick with that until someone comes along and tells me I'm full of it.

... wait for it.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well, at least you and I are on the same page now!

[Shooshie]

This is not making sense again. If you don't need to boot in 64 bit mode to run an app in 64 bit, then why do you need to do it at all? I get the extension thing (to some degree) but if you are booted in 32 bit, can you access more than 4GB of RAM in DP? Id on't think you can, but would love to see definitive data on that. Here's a thumbnail of the issues at hand...

The 4GB limit is my biggest issue with DP, BTW, so this is critical.

It seems I was wrong. I've been so confused over this that it's not funny anymore. I've been trying to get a straight answer but everyone seems to just talk around it, or I've not been able to understand what they've been trying to get across. I finally read something that makes sense:

While Mac OS X is able to handle more than 4GB of RAM [running in 32-bit], applications are still limited by the 32-bit address space.
If applications are solely running on 64-bit kernel extension they can use more than 4GB of virtual memory. Also OSX will use 64-bit registers for operations resulting in increased performance.

So it seems to utilize more than 4GB of RAM in a 64-bit application such as DP8, you need to run DP8 in 64-bit and boot to the 64-bit kernel.

I'm going to stick with that until someone comes along and tells me I'm full of it.

... wait for it.

Sorry, I didn't know you were having trouble with that one. I stop participating in discussions like this, because the misinformation is just endless, and at some point you begin to wonder if YOU'RE the one that's wrong. So, I just sit it out. But what you described is indeed my understanding of how this works, and I'm 99% sure it's right.

Shooshie

[dix]

... wait for it.

...and here it is (maybe?). DP8 hasn't arrived yet, but I can load almost 12gb (my max) into a 64bit enabled Bidule on my Mac Pro booted into a 32bit kernel (my only option).

[MIDI Life Crisis]

... and don't wait for it...

My understanding (again, as with Shoosh, I believe I'm 99% correct) is that some apps have their own memory servers which can load more RAM than the 32 booted machine would allow. Kontakt I think also does this.

Gentlemen, I await your confirmation or rebuttal.

And then there's this...

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=98522

[dix]

I may be in over my head - does this picture help clarify anything?. As far as I know Ivory does not use a server. That's why I used it for this experiment.

[Shooshie]

I may be in over my head - does this picture help clarify anything?. As far as I know Ivory does not use a server. That's why I used it for this experiment.

Not so sure about that. I mean, I haven't checked, but if any VI needs an external server, it's Ivory. It is the most CPU stressing VI that I run.

Shoosh

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Are you doing a cover to Stairway to Heaven?

[dix]

I may be in over my head - does this picture help clarify anything?. As far as I know Ivory does not use a server. That's why I used it for this experiment.

Not so sure about that. I mean, I haven't checked, but if any VI needs an external server, it's Ivory. It is the most CPU stressing VI that I run.

Shoosh

I'm fairly certain it does not use a sample server. It was never announced and has no settings for it, if it does. Either way does the picture not demonstrate that I'm running an app that's using more than 4gb? ….if i use the 32bit version of Bidule it craps out at under 4gb.

[Dan Worley]

Once again I'm confused.

Thanks Dix. If you will, please try the same booted to 32-bit kernel when DP8 shows up. I'm going to do the same. I have a MacPo 1.1, so I can't technically boot to 64-bit. If I'm able to access more than 4GB of RAM with DP8 on my machine I will be thrilled (I'll be trilled just to have DP8 anyway). I'll know almost immediately if there is a change in CPU load and performance. Most of my active projects are right on the verge of breaking.

Thanks!

[Dan Worley]

This is not making sense again. If you don't need to boot in 64 bit mode to run an app in 64 bit, then why do you need to do it at all? I get the extension thing (to some degree) but if you are booted in 32 bit, can you access more than 4GB of RAM in DP? Id on't think you can, but would love to see definitive data on that. Here's a thumbnail of the issues at hand...

The 4GB limit is my biggest issue with DP, BTW, so this is critical.

It seems I was wrong. I've been so confused over this that it's not funny anymore. I've been trying to get a straight answer but everyone seems to just talk around it, or I've not been able to understand what they've been trying to get across. I finally read something that makes sense:

While Mac OS X is able to handle more than 4GB of RAM [running in 32-bit], applications are still limited by the 32-bit address space.
If applications are solely running on 64-bit kernel extension they can use more than 4GB of virtual memory. Also OSX will use 64-bit registers for operations resulting in increased performance.

So it seems to utilize more than 4GB of RAM in a 64-bit application such as DP8, you need to run DP8 in 64-bit and boot to the 64-bit kernel.

I'm going to stick with that until someone comes along and tells me I'm full of it.

... wait for it.

Sorry, I didn't know you were having trouble with that one. I stop participating in discussions like this, because the misinformation is just endless, and at some point you begin to wonder if YOU'RE the one that's wrong. So, I just sit it out. But what you described is indeed my understanding of how this works, and I'm 99% sure it's right.

Shooshie

Thanks, Shoosh. I think it's right, too. But then...