Mind about to Explode.. need Tech Help please..

[Marc7777]

Hello all,

I've had this problem for a long time now. It's not crippling and i've been too busy to really try and solve it, but now I do have some time on my hands.. and I just. can't. figure it out.. Any help/advice would be so amazingly appreciated!
Please read through this.. i'm sorry it's lengthy.. but I want to be as clear as I can.


I'll try to explain as clearly as possible.

Basically, I get an audio dropout about once every few hours. Sometimes a lot, some times once a day, sometimes not at all (in a day). But it feels like some one basically pushes a Mute button on and off for about a second. As in, I've heard sometimes with MIDI it will drop out but then when it comes back, it plays the notes really fast, jumbled together. But this, even with MIDI, continues playing the notes but the audio just gets temporarily muted.. This happens to both recorded MIDI (playing back) as well as recorded audio (playing back).

My setup briefly:

Main Mac Pro - dual core, 10.6.8, DP7.24, VEP 5 (latest), Ableton Live (Rewire), PCI-424
"VEP" Slave Mac Pro - Dual Core, 10.6.8, VEP 5 (latest), PCI-424
Slave PC - uses VSTACK - really only used for old sample libraries.. (rarely used)

I have a 2408 MKIII as my "Main" 2408. Then I have 2 other 2408's connected to my Main Mac that handle "Piped" audio via ADAT from my Slave Mac/PC. Although I don't really use them too much now since I got VE Pro.. and all audio is handled over a LAN cable.. what a waste of $$ haha

I then send audio from my MKIII via ADAT to my O2R96. (I use to mix not this console, but now it just sits there routing audio, and I mix in the box.) O2R to speakers.

Here's the interesting part that may lead some of you to a diagnosis:

I route my DP Video Audio (Dialog on Left, Temp music Right) out of a little M-audio (usb) Fast track. It goes straight to my O2R, to two channels (L/R) that I can then mute when I want. THIS AUDIO DOES NOT DROP OUT! this is what perplexes me. The audio from my MKIII drops, but the dialog will stay on.

Secondly, When I'm recording something, It goes from my Symphony IO to my 2408 (via ADAT) into DP. I've experienced that when the audio drops out, it also drops the audio that is being recorded as it's being recorded. HOWEVER, when I go back to the recorded track.. THERE'S NO DROP OUT! as in.. it was recorded fine.. but some how, the audio dropped out (post fader?)

Trust me, I've tried every setting there is possible. There's no CPU Spikes, I have plenty of RAM (and yes, I've swapped them all out to ensure no bad RAM), I've tried all the "Memory allocations" possible, reformatted drives, reinstalled everything, dumped prefs. you name it. I've even had DP run just a single instrument, and sure enough, after a few hours of randomly playing, it dropped out briefly. So it (To me) doesn't seem like a software issue .. like maybe a faulty hardware.. but I don't really know where to start. any thoughts on how to trouble shoot hardware faults?

Although please give me any suggestions you may think of, even software related, I'm willing to try anything at this point.

Has anyone experienced this before? Mostly all the threads I read about dropouts are due to either a) user error or b) a CPU/ RAM error. This is neither. (I hope)


But other than that pesky dropout, everything works perfectly in my setup! It's just embarrassing when you have a professional studio, doing some major recording/TV shows and when you're recording a top paid player and he messes up because the music cuts out for a second... well.. you can see my frustration. (Not to mention printing a long cue, and before the end, it cuts out! AHH!!!)

Anyways, I'm breathing.. staying calm.. my brain is just fried trying to figure this out. And I know there are people on this forum who are very intelligent and have a knack for this kind of thing!

Thanks everyone!

~Marc

[HCMarkus]

I have no specific solution to recommend, but your description causes me to think clocking or a bad firewire connectin may be behind your issues.

A couple of thoughts:
Have you tried disconnecting the MAudio USB interface and running your system?
Have you tried swapping out firewire and audiowire cables?
Have you seen the threads about Audiowire/Firewire cables not seating as deeply as required, necessitating a little trimming of the plastic at the connector?

The weird thing is the "recording continues but monitoring is dropped" and that pushes my mind toward a clocking issue between the 2408 out and 02R96 in.

[mikehalloran]

Clocking is my first thought, also.

[Marc7777]

Thank you guys for helping me with this issue! it is greatly appreciated!

Have you tried disconnecting the MAudio USB interface and running your system?

Yes, I actually use to use the built in output (headphone jack) in the front of my Mac pro. Same issue. But that jack, for some reason, started to have a slight buzz to it, so I went the USB route.

Have you tried swapping out firewire and audiowire cables?

No i haven't tried this. Only because my Mac's are in a Machine room, and I have the cables already run through the wall. Quick question: Is there a maximum length those Audiowire cables can be?

Have you seen the threads about Audiowire/Firewire cables not seating as deeply as required, necessitating a little trimming of the plastic at the connector?

I think so, briefly. what were the symptoms for these people that did this? This might be a last resort, since like I said, they are already ran through the wall, so if I messed that up..well.. it would be a pain in the neck to fix it..

Clocking is my first thought, also.

Okay so how to troubleshoot clocking. Here's my signal flow for the clocking:

Apogee Symphony IO is the Master Clock. It then goes to my Aardvark Sync DA. This distributes out 4 WC signals (via BNC cables). One to my O2R, One to my MKIII, One to my TC 6000, and one to my PC. All other synths/other clocked stuff is handled via ADAT or SPDIF.

Would it be a matter of swapping cables? is there any other way to check clocking? The O2R isn't giving me any warning messages or anything..

I really really appreciate the help! I've been racking my brain over this for a few weeks now...

Cheers!

~Marc

[spire10r]

Hey Marc,

Think you may be on to something with the length of these cables. My experience with a buddies PCI system was that we could only use runs of about 15 ft. (same as FW). Although he did end purchasing some uber-expensive cable that he ran out to ~20 ft without timing issues to his 2408.

So there is some play in there but I wouldn't push above 20 ft even though MOTU says 50-60 is possible!!

Hope this helps!

[bowczarzak]

Marc,

You're not alone. I have a similar issue with dropouts. Occasionally, the dropout is accompanied by a high-pitched squeal. Some days I have no dropouts whatsoever and sometimes it happens every few minutes. When the audio drops out, the dropout is reflected in the meters on the front of the MOTU interface (both input and output meters).

I have a new ADK 8600SB laptop with the mkIII hybrid interface. I've unplugged the network cable, disabled the wireless, shut down every nonessential service I can think of. I only have a Logitech wireless mouse (USB receiver), Cubase USB license key and M-Audio Midisport 2x2 MIDI interface attached (the mkIII's MIDI interface seems to miss some key-up messages). The dropouts happen even with nothing more running than an mp3 in Windows Media Player. It also happens when running my bass through Guitar Rig or playing a VST instrument... all fairly simple and isolated scenarios.

I'll be troubleshooting further over the next few weeks. Let me know if you find something on your end that solves your issues.

Bryan

[Marc7777]

Hey Bryan,

Ah that makes me feel a little better! So i'm NOT going completely insane! ha

Your symptoms sound similar to mine.

Do you think it's just a buggy MKIII Device?

I've updated over and over the latest drivers.. nothing changes.

I'm trying to get ahold of another 2408 (or MKIII) and try it out. I'll let you know if it works or not.

The hardest part about trouble shooting this, is how random it all happens! I'll go a day with no dropouts and feel like a troubleshooting God! ... then it drops out.. and back to square one..

Let me know what you find! i'll do the same!

Cheers!

~Marc

[Marc7777]

to add...

I'm really waiting until I exhaust every other possibility before I go and try shaving the cable tip/trying a new cable.

Those FW cables are ran through a conduit through a wall. I have a "Machine Room".

So if I were to mess up the cable, it would mean a LOT of work to get a new cable through there...

That's the only reason I haven't tried that possibility yet..