FIrewire interface vs USB for small projects

[Helicopterman]

Hey everyone, I'm getting an Imac soon so I will be using my external firewire drive for streaming my instruments but was wondering, since there are mainly USB inputs in the Imac, would a USB interface work fine for what I use it for which is MIDI, voice overs and single guitar tracks? I'm not multi tracking tons of stuff at once. Just one thing at a time. I also can't daisy chain my interface either since there is only 1 Firewire port. Is there an affordable alternative? I have to stream firewire for my instruments on my external drive. It would be to hard on my main drive in the Imac otherwise.

[mhschmieder]

USB all the way. But you need a good implementation. RME is miles beyond the others, but there are other good options as well. You can find this discussion somewhere in this forum, from within the past 30 days.

I don't know the fold-down configuration of current iMacs, but regardless, it's probably better to have your audio on USB if your data is on FireWire, and your data will benefit more from FireWire than your audio will, so that's the right choice in which protocol to use for each purpose.

RME no longer recommends FireWire, seeing its death on the horizon and having put a lot of work into making USB faster than FireWire. Even other vendors who don't do custom board and chip design (as well as top-notch drivers) as RME does, no longer offer much if any advantage for using FireWire as the audio protocol.

If you're starved for cash, MOTU offers some of the best bang for buck, along with rock solid drivers. For small projects, your channel count requirement might be fairly low as well, which saves money when looking at interface choices.

[mikehalloran]

Daisy chaining FW is an issue only if one or more device is bus powered - then anything after the first device won't work.

If you have multiple FW devices, get a Firewire hub. Even the G5s and Mac Pros with their multiple FW ports only have one Firewire bus.

The new iMacs have one FW800 port. FW800-FW400 adapters run under $15 and let you use your FW400 cables and devices. You only need one off of the iMac to go to your hub.

In my case, I have two FW800 externals daisy chained off of my iMac. The chain then runs through an adapter to my FW400 hub to which is attached my 808mkII and other FW devices.

I have one drive that has the option of being attached via eSATA, FW800, FW400 and usb2. I transfered a 300GB test load using each of the connections. As one would expect, eSATA was the fastest, followed by FW800. The differences between FW400 and usb2 weren't large enough to consider but FW400 had a slight edge.

Unless you have an immediate need, I wouldn't buy anything except a good hub. Thunderbolt drives should start arriving next Spring and should blow away everything you own now.

[mhschmieder]

I always get messed up by paragraphs that have five different topics without a break or formatting, so missed the buried comment in the O.P. that there is already an audio interface in the equation.

I thought the main question was which type of interface to buy.

Mike was more patient than I was, and figured out the real question, the question behind the question, and the incorrect assumptions behind the question.

Nevertheless, when buying a NEW interface -- if one can't hold out for Thunderbolt to become more widespread -- RME interfaces in particular now perform WAY better using USB2 than FW400, and they dropped FW800 as they found it unreliable for audio (vs. standard data for disc reads/writes). Their recent USB2 and hybrid interfaces are equivalent to their PCIe cards in terms of latency.

[bayswater]

Mike, since you bring up the topic of daisy chaining FW devices: I have the 828 Mk3 and a FW400 drive plugged into the 800 port on the iMac. I have a cable with a 9 pin connector on one and an six pin on the other (from the Apple store) so I assume that qualifies as a 800-400 adapter. Does it matter what order they are connected? (I.e., converter then drive, or vice-versa). If I get a FW800 drive, would the order matter, or would I simply go from iMac to drive, then via adapter to the converter?

[marquito]

For your USB audio interface, RME are indeed a good choice, but if your I/O needs are modest you simply must consider the Apogee Duet 2 - it's beautifully built and the audio quality is remarkable. It's a 2in/4out device, works brilliantly and does exactly what I need - no more, no less.

It doesn't have any MIDI I/O but I long ago ditched external MIDI devices and my main controller is USB MIDI - so that wasn't an issue for me - YMMV however...

[mhschmieder]

The RME Babyface is way better bang-for-buck than the Apogee Duet, even if more expensive, and is more scalable as well as more flexible for different usage scenarios and interconnectivity situations (mobile vs. fixed, etc.). If going cheaper than the Babyface, it's time to take another look at MOTU's offerings. Maybe there's even a BLA mod for them?

[Helicopterman]

I'm just looking for something cheap since I'm not using it for much except one track at a time. The RME were over $600 so that's way out of my budget.

[mhschmieder]

OK. In that case, you might even want to take advantage of some of the current blow-out specials on M-Boxes then?

[mikehalloran]

Mike, since you bring up the topic of daisy chaining FW devices: I have the 828 Mk3 and a FW400 drive plugged into the 800 port on the iMac. I have a cable with a 9 pin connector on one and an six pin on the other (from the Apple store) so I assume that qualifies as a 800-400 adapter. Does it matter what order they are connected? (I.e., converter then drive, or vice-versa). If I get a FW800 drive, would the order matter, or would I simply go from iMac to drive, then via adapter to the converter?

Yes, the 9-6 pin cable is a long (and more expensive) version of the converter. That's fine.

It is not supposed to matter what order you daisy chain them, assuming that neither device is bus powered. If it works, it works.

For those with bus powered devices, only the first device in the chain can be bus powered. All others must have another power source.

Interesting trend on MacBooks and other laptops: Only one USB port supports bus power. If you have more than one bus powered device, you will need a hub with an external power supply. On most Macs, the back/CPU ports support bus power but the keyboard ports do not - been this way always?

[bayswater]

Yes, the 9-6 pin cable is a long (and more expensive) version of the converter. That's fine.

It is not supposed to matter what order you daisy chain them, assuming that neither device is bus powered. If it works, it works.

For those with bus powered devices, only the first device in the chain can be bus powered. All others must have another power source.

Interesting trend on MacBooks and other laptops: Only one USB port supports bus power. If you have more than one bus powered device, you will need a hub with an external power supply. On most Macs, the back/CPU ports support bus power but the keyboard ports do not - been this way always?

Thanks.

For USB, I've never been able to reliably use more than one device without a powered hub on a Mac. Keyboard and mouse on the first USB rear port was an exception on my G4 and G5. I think I recall seeing that covered in a support articles.

[mhschmieder]

I was surprised to find that my NEC monitor contains a powered USB hub.

For those who have newer monitors, it's a good place to check for more usable USB ports, but don't forget to account for them all collapsing to one USB port on the computer itself.

I mention this because sometimes they're hidden. I always read the manual in full before setting up anything that I buy, but I know most people throw the manual away without even reading it, so it would be easy to miss these hidden USB ports that are underneath the swivel connector on some monitors and out of view.