MachFive 3 early Oct in OZ

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:40 am

For Australian M5 users: the first stock of MachFive 3 and upgrades is expected to arrive in the first week of October. Substantial back-orders are already in place but, as yet, not all product is allocated. Contact your retailer to secure your copy or PM me if you need assistance in obtaining a copy.

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:39 am

Why is the cost of the upgrade (from previous versions of MachFive) $70 more here in Australia? The exchange rate has been at or above parity for the better part of the last year, surely shipping doesn't cost $70 per unit to Australia?

MIDI Life Crisis · Post by **MIDI Life Crisis** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:35 am

It's the translation as well as having to print the manual upside-down. Sorry... But seriously, I wonder if there is some tarrif involved?

stephentayler · Post by **stephentayler** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 9:03 am

Any local taxes added??? In the UK they add 20% VAT....

(which of course I can claim back)

Stephen

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:54 pm

We do have a goods and services tax (GST) that a retailer has to charge me when I buy from them. Interestingly, if I buy from the US or elsewhere overseas and the purchase is for less than $1,000, I don't have to pay the goods and services tax. The GST here is 10% of the retail price, so, that would bring something like the upgrade @ $179 up to ~$195 to ~$200.

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:31 am

The GST is paid to Australian Customs prior to receiving the shipment and is also levied on the freight component of the invoice. There's also the customs fees for the paperwork/clearance. Business does not have the opportunity to dodge the GST, as do individuals importing goods valued under $1000AUD. It all goes to the bottom line and ends up making the rrp of the product higher than in the USA. Price parity is the objective, but is not entirely achievable given the realities and the "tyranny of distance".

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:20 am

davedempsey wrote:The GST is paid...

Yes, 10%, and even if it is paid on shipping fees (which I do not believe to be the case, I think you are mistaken there), that adds, at most, $20 to the cost.

davedempsey wrote:There's also the customs fees...

These are really insignificant in my experience, I'm not sure if you are paying for some sort of special service or not, but any agent I have ever used is pretty cheap - what, maybe another $5 per absolute max cost?

davedempsey wrote:It all goes to the bottom line...

Yes, and users like me have bottom lines just like distributors do. For too long in this country we have been forced to pay over market prices for imported goods.

davedempsey wrote:Price parity is the objective, but is not entirely achievable given the realities and the "tyranny of distance".

Sure, we all accept that there are costs, but the costs do not appear to drive the price, if they did, MachFive 3 would be retailing here in Oz for ~$225, and selling on the street for ~$210, and not ~$249 and ~$225 respectively.

davedempsey wrote:Business does not have the opportunity to dodge the GST, as do individuals importing goods valued under $1000AUD.

Ahem, I ain't dodging anything.
I am fully complying with the laws of this country when I (always reluctantly) decide to import something direct because the local price is just so high I can't justify ripping myself off by buying local.

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:35 am

BKK-OZ : Ahem, I ain't dodging anything.

Never said you were BK - no need to adopt a defensive position

BKK-OZ: Yes, 10%, and even if it is paid on shipping fees (which I do not believe to be the case, I think you are mistaken there), that adds, at most, $20 to the cost.

No, not mistaken BK - customs will calculate the GST including the freight charge - it is a Goods and Services tax and shipping the goods into Australia is part of the product. I know this is true because my company imports and we pay GST on the total cost of the invoice.

Customs fees are only insignificant if you don't pay them... for business they are a further cost outlay which adds to the bottom line, as does local carrier charges, warehousing costs etc. etc. All costs must be returned with a profit otherwise the money is better off invested elsewhere. Absolute price parity is not achievable.

Importing on your own is totally your right but I don't believe I'm ripping myself off because I choose to buy locally.... I'd rather think of it as supporting the community and local business, spending my money in the market where I earn it, what goes around comes around - just a different point of view I guess.

bdr · Post by **bdr** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:36 pm

So as importers you have to pay full price to get the goods here? You don't get them for wholesale price?

Australians have been beyond ripped off for decades and finally the internet has opened consumers eyes here. At least the days of everything being 2-3x more expensive seem to be leaving us.

I remember buying Opcode Vision for well over $1000 and was told it was to help support a local distributor's tech support network. I called for help once about a bug or a crash and was told "well mate, it just doesn't do that". Great support!

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:37 am

Before we go any further let me say right now I am not associated with the company that imports Motu product, except as a client.

My reason for posting was just to let anyone, who might have been interested, know the expected arrival of the first shipment of M5 3... Foolish me...

As to claims of being ripped off: Motu has the upgrade at $179 USD and the local importer has it at $229 AUD. Given the cost of transporting it half way around the world, with insurance of course, and the tax and fees paid to Australian Customs to release the goods - once again tax levied on the total of the invoice, including transport cost - the local freight cost and the fact that at this time the AUD is worth 0.95 USD, I can absolutely guarantee the local rrp is about as close to parity as would be possible - unless of course you'd like someone else to subsidize your purchase.

As I type this, $179 USD will cost $188.50 AUD. By the time you calculate the other costs and allow for the tax you guys are complaining about very few dollars at best. Seriously

Go and talk to a financial consultant or a real estate salesman if you want to feel ripped.

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:33 pm

davedempsey wrote:My reason for posting was just to let anyone, who might have been interested, know the expected arrival of the first shipment of M5 3... Foolish me...

Thanx. Just because we may disagree about something doesn't mean, for me at least, that I automatically hate everything you do, I don't, so maybe you shouldn't feel so defensive. Thanx for pointing this out.

davedempsey wrote:the local importer has it at $229 AUD.

That's news to me - if you had read my post above, that is about where I said the r.r.p. should be for Oz. I made my statements based on a price ($249) on a retailer's site. I agree, the difference in dollars isn't that great. If the local r.r.p. is ~$229, should get you a price ~$210-215, if you have an on-going relationship with a local retailer. So, no, I am not upset about that, that seems fair to me. $249 did not seem fair to me.

davedempsey wrote:you guys are complaining about very few dollars at best.

Yes, on this one, but that doesn't excuse the many years of rip-offs that we have had to put up with here. Even good ol' Apple - for many years seemingly unable to acknowledge that the exchange rate wasn't really 2-for-1, and that it might not be fair to just double the price of their gear here in Oz.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:58 pm

Don't assume the dealers are paying MOTU the retail price. If I order from a local store in Vancouver, the price will be exactly the same as ordering from MOTU. No extra markup, no shipping, and 12% GST either way.

If local dealers are charging more, you have to ask what they are adding to the equation. If it's a car or a TV, there is local management of warranties, etc, and all this has some value to the buyer, but for software, what exactly does a dealer in Canada and Australia add over what MOTU is already doing?

(As for shipping costs, who knows how that works: it costs Honda about $120 to get a car from Japan to the port in Vancouver, and takes about two weeks. Car buyers are then charged about $1,200 to have it shipped from the port to the dealer, whether the dealer is a few hundred yards from the port, or 5,000 miles away in Newfoundland)

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:37 am

BK:

Thanx. Just because we may disagree about something doesn't mean, for me at least, that I automatically hate everything you do, I don't, so maybe you shouldn't feel so defensive. Thanx for pointing this out.

OK.. turnaround is fair play and I deserve that... I know you're one of the good guys BK

I'd reckon the dealer has it at $249 to cover his freight cost and give him some headroom for discounting... Major Music still has it at $229 on their software upgrade page http://store.majormusic.com.au/s.nl/sc. ... ry.5103/.f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; take it to the checkout and you get the local freight fee added - reality of a user pays world.

bayswater:

If local dealers are charging more, you have to ask what they are adding to the equation. If it's a car or a TV, there is local management of warranties, etc, and all this has some value to the buyer, but for software, what exactly does a dealer in Canada and Australia add over what MOTU is already doing?

We are in a different situation given the cost of transporting product to Oz is a bit steep - eg: a single carton a speaker repair parts that cost say $1500USD will attract a freight cost of around $350USD based on cubed weight (a calculation of weight and carton dimensions which always results in the importer being screwed because they have no choice if they wish to continue conducting business) - this adds just over 23% to the landed cost of the product before tax - which is 10% of the invoice total - in this example that's a further $185USD. Then there's the customs paperwork fees, which if you know how to do it all will add around $70AUD to this example shipment. So in this example (and it's accurate guys - this is what I do for a day gig) freight, tax and customs fees has added approx 37% to the landed cost of the product... I shouldn't need to explain that any further as you are all intelligent humans.
Australia is a high cost economy with very tight margins at retail.... internet and global economy coupled with our no trade barrier stance means business is squeezed. Jobs are important... I sincerely hope Australians will begin to think about this before they stop buying in the local market.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 7:40 am

davedempsey wrote:
bayswater:
If local dealers are charging more, you have to ask what they are adding to the equation. If it's a car or a TV, there is local management of warranties, etc, and all this has some value to the buyer, but for software, what exactly does a dealer in Canada and Australia add over what MOTU is already doing?
We are in a different situation given the cost of transporting product to Oz is a bit steep - eg: a single carton a speaker repair parts that cost say $1500USD will attract a freight cost of around $350USD based on cubed weight (a calculation of weight and carton dimensions which always results in the importer being screwed because they have no choice if they wish to continue conducting business) - this adds just over 23% to the landed cost of the product before tax - which is 10% of the invoice total - in this example that's a further $185USD. Then there's the customs paperwork fees, which if you know how to do it all will add around $70AUD to this example shipment. So in this example (and it's accurate guys - this is what I do for a day gig) freight, tax and customs fees has added approx 37% to the landed cost of the product... I shouldn't need to explain that any further as you are all intelligent humans.
Australia is a high cost economy with very tight margins at retail.... internet and global economy coupled with our no trade barrier stance means business is squeezed. Jobs are important... I sincerely hope Australians will begin to think about this before they stop buying in the local market.

Dave, Canada went through the same reasoning for years, and still does the same thing for some products made locally, despite a free trade agreement with a lot of countries. But there is no one in Canada making a product that competes with DP, and I suspect no one in Australia either, so its not clear how having local dealers, customs agents, brokers, etc, that do nothing but move a box from A to B several times helps anyone. Yes, there's the cost of shipping, and Oz is a long way, but I'm about 3,000 air miles from Boston -- that's not trivial -- and I don't see any shipping charges. Would be interesting to know how shipping costs enter into it for places like Hong Kong and Singapore.

I know the whole thing is more complicated than that, but you have to believe there's a better way. Putting the software on the cloud would help too. I think there's another discussion on that topic somewhere.

bdr · Post by **bdr** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:47 pm

I should have added that I've had very good service from Major Music the MOTU dealer here in Oz, and the upgrade price seems reasonable.

I don't expect parity but you well know Dave we have been gouged for years, local distributors have ben getting away with murder. Sorry to vent, it's been a sore point with me for years only amplified when I went to live in the US for a while, got used to the prices and then went back to Oz and got sticker shock (more like sticker heart attack

). As a current example, Macs are way overpriced here, because they can.

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