DP 7.24 MIDI playback issue with MIDI input

[skittlegirl]

Hello,

I've been having a MIDI playback issue on DP and would like to see if I can get help here.

I'm using DP7.24 on Lion.

I'm using Yamaha Motif-Rack sound module connected to my MIDI interface. I'm also using MIDI keyboards for MIDI input.

Recently I realized that when DP plays recorded MIDI track(s) back while I'm playing a separate track with my MIDI keyboard, the sounds for the previously recorded track playback incorrectly. The improper playback sounds as though the MIDI notes are stuck, creating long tones which don't stop until I use the "Stop Sounding MIDI Notes" option. If I don't play on my MIDI keyboard, these previously recorded tracks play normal.
So long story short, my MIDI Keyboard's input somehow messes up the playback of recorded MIDI tracks on DP.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Record track 1 (MIDI CH#1, Output to Motif #1) using MIDI Keyboard.
2. Click REC on track 2 (MIDI CH#2, Output to Motif #2) and record (or even simply play) the track while playing track 1 back. Notice track 1 plays long, stuck tones.
3. Click REC on track 3 (MIDI CH#3, Output to Motif #3) and record the track while playing track 1 and 2. Notice track 1 and 2 play long stuck tones.

I took a reference video of the reproduction steps for the bug. It is available here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaFLAVNDGOY


I've been contacting MOTU Tech support by e-mail.
Since the MIDI notes on the recorded MIDI track appear normal in it, MOTU seems to think it's my sound module's issue. I could understand that, however some things don't make sense if it's my sound module's problem :

1. This problem didn't exist before (and I've never changed my sound module's settings). However, recently my OS, DP and MIDI interface's driver got updated.
2. This problem didn't happen on Logic Express. If it's a problem of either sound module's or MIDI interface's, I thought that the problem should be seen on Logic Express as well.
3. I checked my sound module's settings, and no "Omni MIDI receiving" setting is set as "ON".

With MOTU's Tech support's help, I tried to uncheck "Sync Recorded MIDI to Patch Thru" option in "MIDI Patch Thru" window. However, this didn't solve the problem either.

Some more information:
- My MIDI interface doesn't have MIDI patching function.
- My sound module doesn't have a MIDI controller (so no local control enabled).

I'd really appreciate it if anybody can help me figure out what's causing this problem since this issue is so critical for me.
It might be my DP's setting issue. As MOTU says, it could be actually a sound module's problem. If so, I'd be happy to go to their tech support to find solution. However I'm not convinced that it is yet.

Thank you very much for your help in advance.

[b.g.]

This problem didn't exist before (and I've never changed my sound module's settings).

Before what?

However, recently my OS, DP and MIDI interface's driver got updated.

Did you have the problem before upgrading to Lion?

[skittlegirl]

This problem didn't exist before (and I've never changed my sound module's settings).

Before what?

This problem didn't occur before updating DP to version 7.24.

However, recently my OS, DP and MIDI interface's driver got updated.

Did you have the problem before upgrading to Lion?

I don't think so. I've created some MIDI songs on DP before upgrading to Lion but I didn't notice the issue then.

[Gravity Jim]

I had this same behavior (just one of several bad behaviors) on my system aftter upgrading to Lion and DP 7.24. I assumed it was a plug-in that want Lion ready or something, but your set-up sounds dead simple.

How is your Motif module connected to your computer? Do you have any plug-ins or VIs installed? I'm curious if figuring out your problem can help solve mine.

[skittlegirl]

How is your Motif module connected to your computer? Do you have any plug-ins or VIs installed?

Yes my setup is very simple. My Motif-Rack is connected to my MIDI interface (TC Electronic's Konnekt 24D), and the interface is connected to my iMac via Firewire cable. My MIDI keyboards are also connected to the interface.

I do have some plug-ins and software instruments installed (NI Kontakt, Symphonic Instrument, etc...) but this issue doesn't occur when using the internal(virtual) instruments. It only happens when I use Motif with multiple MIDI tracks assigned to the module.

[Gravity Jim]

I use Kontakt as well, and wondered if unused VIs could still be the root cause because they load components at boot.

Like me, you're running 4GB of RAM. Magic Dave at MOTU suggested that maybe I was just experiencing low-memory weirdness (I just upgraded the machine to 8GB of RAM two minutes ago, something I've been meaning to do for a while). I'm not saying you should run out and buy memory... but I wish there was a way to test that theory that didn't require me upgrading to Lion again!

[cuttime]

Sounds like it may be time to trash your DP prefs.

[skittlegirl]

Like me, you're running 4GB of RAM. Magic Dave at MOTU suggested that maybe I was just experiencing low-memory weirdness (I just upgraded the machine to 8GB of RAM two minutes ago, something I've been meaning to do for a while). I'm not saying you should run out and buy memory... but I wish there was a way to test that theory that didn't require me upgrading to Lion again!

I want to know if it's related to memory issue as well. But hmm... still it's kind of weird if it is, since it feels like running Plug-ins uses more memory than just sending MIDI data to my sound module... But if upgrading memory solves this problem for sure, I'd like to think about it.

Sounds like it may be time to trash your DP prefs.

Which files should I dump to do so?
"com.motu.DigitalPerformer.plist" in home>library>preferences folder or are there anything else?

[cuttime]

Sounds like it may be time to trash your DP prefs.

Which files should I dump to do so?
"com.motu.DigitalPerformer.plist" in home>library>preferences folder or are there anything else?

Also, user>Library>Preferences>Digital Performer>Preferences. You may want to keep these on your desktop in case this doesn't fix the problem.

[Dan Worley]

Let's hope trashing the preferences works.

I appreciate you explaining everything so thoroughly. Many (most) people don't.

I take it you updated the driver for the Konnekt 24D to get along with Lion?

A quick look tells me it's version 2.5.1.6973.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[cuttime]

I appreciate you explaining everything so thoroughly. Many (most) people don't.

+1

[skittlegirl]

I remembered that my Casio Privia (which I use as a MIDI Keyboard) has internal sounds which I can control with MIDI Input. So, I tried to see if I could reproduce the same symptom with Casio.
I plugged a MIDI cable to my Casio's "MIDI IN" (from my MIDI Interface's "MIDI OUT") and used my Novation's keyboard as a MIDI input.

I tried the same steps as those mentioned above, and the same issue occurred on Casio as well.
So, this symptom is not specific to Motif...


I also checked "Activity Monitor" app when the problem occurred. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but according to it it has more than 1GB of free memory when recording/playing MIDI on DP.

Sounds like it may be time to trash your DP prefs.

Which files should I dump to do so?
"com.motu.DigitalPerformer.plist" in home>library>preferences folder or are there anything else?

Also, user>Library>Preferences>Digital Performer>Preferences. You may want to keep these on your desktop in case this doesn't fix the problem.

Thank you for the info. I moved "com.motu.DigitalPerformer.plist" and "Preferences" files from the preferences folder to my desktop. Then I restarted my Mac, opened DP 7.24 again.
Unfortunately this didn't change the symptom either.

Let's hope trashing the preferences works.

I appreciate you explaining everything so thoroughly. Many (most) people don't.

I take it you updated the driver for the Konnekt 24D to get along with Lion?

A quick look tells me it's version 2.5.1.6973.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

Yes, I updated the driver for my Konnekt 24D and the latest version is 2.5.1.6973. The driver is working fine on Lion and I have no problem with it so far.

[Shooshie]

Skittlegirl, this is a long shot, but have you tried turning off the option in MIDI patch-thru prefs that enables patching through in the background? That used to cause a problem similar to yours. I thought it had been fixed for years, but this sounds vaguely familiar. You might try that. If not, then I don't have any more to add at the moment. I'll have to review the whole thread a little more carefully.

Shooshie

[skittlegirl]

Skittlegirl, this is a long shot, but have you tried turning off the option in MIDI patch-thru prefs that enables patching through in the background? That used to cause a problem similar to yours. I thought it had been fixed for years, but this sounds vaguely familiar. You might try that.

Thanks for your reply. I tried unchecking "Patch Thru in background" and did the same test, but unfortunately it had the same playback issue.

If I completely turn off "MIDI Patch Thru" mode then this problem doesn't occur (but at the same time I cannot hear what I'm playing when recording which is inconvenient).

[cuttime]

I'm sorry you are still having this problem. I am only guessing that there is some kind of MIDI feedback issue here. Try this utility:
http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and see if there is some kind of loop.

Also, is there a "Local On-Off" setting on the Motif?

Do you have a "thru" cable hooked up? Try disconnecting that.