Moderator: James Steele
Yes, but I HATE reading things off a computer screen. I'm one of the people here who LIKE printed manuals.n2mpujack wrote:Actually I go that thought one better and eliminate the paper all together. I cut out the articles I want to save and scan them in to my Mac as pdf's. No shelf space used or binders to buy.
Don't do it, James. You'd be stooping to their level. For the time I've been here I've only seen you delete posts that are sexually or racially offensive, political, or otherwise inappropriate. You have always let posts stand that have expressed the opinion of the poster as long as they are not disrespectful or break board rules, and I admire you for that. Don't let these guys get your goat.James Steele wrote:I guess since it's that way, I may be deleting some posts over here then. Fair is fair.Guitar Gaz wrote:I have noticed that SOS Forum are deleting some of my posts - a form of censorship obviously. The posts were critical but not over the top or "vitriolic" - but this seems to be the SOS way. I will give up going there as it is just getting annoying......
Again I agree with everything written here (including the amassing of old mags with nowhere to store them).Shooshie wrote:Well, everyone's had their say. Hugh spoke his opinion, whether he was completely forthright or not. My opinion is that he's either in denial or just doesn't want to admit that they are deliberately avoiding DP. I may be wrong. In any case, I'd grown tired of SOS. This morning the recycling truck took several years worth of SOS magazines to be recycled into toilet paper and cardboard. (not just SOS, but also MacWorld and several other magazines of which I've accumulated far too many to be storing indefinitely on my shelves) I'm done with them, even if they start lavishing DP with praise. (yeah, right.) This mess has been distracting, and there is not enough time to keep worrying about it all.
I wish SOS and its employees well. Their magazine provided me with good information and interesting times for years. It's generally a good magazine, or else we wouldn't be so concerned that they have banned DP from their pages. But I'm done with them now. I know they don't need me, won't miss me, and don't particularly care what I think. And what I think is: it's mutual.
Shoosh
Okay. I'm glad youy finally realised it's not SOS's problem. I suggest you steer your understandable angst at Cockos and/or MOTU where it belongs.James Steele wrote: I'm of the opinion that a LARGE percentage of that user base that you're eager to cater to hasn't paid for Reaper and likely won't. And yep... that's not YOUR problem. But it's sort of a problem for DP users
The fact that you apparently didn't know is a shame, I agree, but many tens of thousands of people did know about it and did take part, including a number of DP users. The survey was promoted extensively in the magazine and on the website... but perhaps if you really did only ever read the two DP notes pages that would explain how you managed to miss it.Fact is, I never HEARD of your survey. If the pro users who are using DP in film and TV were on a deadline and not checking the SOS site all the time or missed the side bar, they didn't know about it. A lot of users on this site get SOS and none of them knew about your survey.
It's a deserved nomination. Let's hope it does well...Of course we know about your awards thing and many of us have voted this time around. Thanks for the nomination by the way.
I believe I have already explained what happened here to you directly over on the SOS forum. You can refresh your memory of it here: http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... t=1#871686Further, what was with leaving DP out of the 64-bit compatibility chart then?
I've no idea where it is in the schedule I'm afraid, but I'll ask my colleagues about the plans and report back.When is the review in SOS coming out?
I'm not trying to appeal to you, or any other Motunation user. I was merely pointing out the facts.I'm not sure it would be worth your time to appeal to us at all?
Wish I could say the same regarding your posts, but when I see you continue to misrepresent the situation despite very clear, open and honest explanations from my colleagues and myself, I am left wondering whether you are actually doing yourself, your forum colleagues or, indeed, MOTU any favours at all.James Steele wrote:I'm happy to give SOS the benefit of the doubt as far as intentional "malice"
As has been explained to you repeatedly and with enormous patience, the total audio article content within SOS HAS NOT BEEN REDUCED. The reduction in coverage of DP Notes is NOT RELATED IN ANY WAY to the addition of a new video section.I did take issue with Hugh's statement that none of their audio content was reduced for the video section. As I recall DP coverage was reduced.
Yes, I can see why you would feel like that. Essentially, it is the fact of the situation. Substantially more of our readers wanted to read about Reaper than about DP.So sure... as a DP user... it feels like we're shoved aside for Reaper.
Then please explain why you continue to harp on and on about it when discussing the SOS coverage of DP Notes? It is utterly irrelevant.And as been correctly pointed out, that's really not a concern of SOS.
I don't mind that you make a big deal of it, once. In your shoes I would have enquired about it too. But having received an explanation and an apology I would have got over it and moved on. Do you think you're magnanimous enough to do that?I'll get accused of making too big a deal of it, but it really cheesed me off that SOS couldn't even include DP in the compatibility chart on the article about 64-bit compatibility.
You have received that explanation on at least three separate occasions now. Why is it so hard to take on board?I'd love to have an explanation why we didn't get ONE LINE in a chart???
It might help if you did some research rather than just cite your flawed impressions as if fact. Our intention remains to include DP Notes every two or occasionally every three months. This year DP Notes has appeared in the Febrary, April and July issues. That is every two or three months. The October edition, being a special celebratory issue for our 25th anniversary, has broken the cycle slightly but I'm certain it will be restored without delay.I thought we were demoted to once every two months, but it seems much more infrequent than that.
The only one reminding you of it, is you!When I saw the 64-bit compatibility article, though we'd at least make the little chart. Nope. I find that frustrating and I'd rather not be reminded of it.
I will report back on that as soon as I know the answer.Anyway, maybe Hugh will tell us they're going to do a review of the very significant DP 7.2 update
I don't believe that to be the case, Gary. I've found no evidence in the site logs of any of your recent posts being deleted, removed or moved, and none of the moderators have logged the removal of any of your posts.Guitar Gaz wrote:I have noticed that SOS Forum are deleting some of my posts
Most of your posts fall into the category of 'critical' but they all remain visible as far as I am aware. We do not operate any kind of censorship other than for posts which infringe the forum rules.a form of censorship obviously. The posts were critical but not over the top or "vitriolic" - but this seems to be the SOS way.
You might just want to check your facts before accepting someone else's unfounded claim and then inadvertantly slandering someone or some organisation ...James Steele wrote:I guess since it's that way, I may be deleting some posts over here then. Fair is fair.
The problem is one never really knows what those rules are as most forum operators have a weasel clause allowing them to run the forum as they see fit and arbitrarily delete posts without having to account to anyone (or even notify a poster that they're run afoul of something).SOS Hugh wrote:I don't believe that to be the case, Gary. I've found no evidence in the site logs of any of your recent posts being deleted, removed or moved, and none of the moderators have logged the removal of any of your posts.Guitar Gaz wrote:I have noticed that SOS Forum are deleting some of my posts
If you can provide any further evidence or information I'd happily look into this further, of course.
Most of your posts fall into the category of 'critical' but they all remain visible as far as I am aware. We do not operate any kind of censorship other than for posts which infringe the forum rules.a form of censorship obviously. The posts were critical but not over the top or "vitriolic" - but this seems to be the SOS way.
regards
hugh
James Steele wrote:So then logically, Performer Notes also contains "techniques and concepts" that can be applied to users of Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, and Reaper, as well!
Doesn't this contradict the reasoning behind why it was so imperative for SOS to reduce coverage of Digital Performer?
None of GuitarGaz's posts have been deleted or removed from the SOS site by anyone from SOS or any of our site moderators.James Steele wrote:Yeah... deleting Guitar Gaz's posts off their forum seems pretty weak.
Our forum rules are clear and easily available on the site, but yes of course we reserve the right to run the forum as we see fit. Just as this forum operates.n2mpujack wrote:The problem is one never really knows what those rules are as most forum operators have a weasel clause allowing them to run the forum as they see fit and arbitrarily delete posts without having to account to anyone (or even notify a poster that they're run afoul of something).
It is with no malice at all just weary disappointment - as I have said I have given up going there - it has happened a few different times that my posts have disappeared. I know they were there - you can say it is operational error. I will definitely not trouble SOS forums anymore so it is not an issue with me now. The bad feeling already exists so please don't try to pin that on me. I don't need to instill any bad feeling on this forum - that already exists, especially with some of the comments that have been made on your forum about DP users. Its not an allegation - just a statement which you dispute. Fine - dispute away. I have already decided to quit SOS as a subscriber so for me that's end of story - my complaint is not really about the forum anyway and I never expect complete legal freedom of speech on a forum - my complaint is about content of the magazine . As a soon to be ex-subscriber my comments on SOS will no longer be of much relevance - but a few of us felt that the attitude towards DP and DP users by SOS left a lot to be desired. As some of us will no longer take the magazine then that is the end of the story - but I would not want protest to prejudice SOS coverage of a great DAW like DP. But that is up to SOS - we love our DAW and have paid for it. We feel that jumping on a Reaper bandwagon at the expense of DP deserves criticism - which your publication clearly doesn't like. But like Shooshie I have done with SOS and its not a real issue anymore.SOS Hugh wrote:None of GuitarGaz's posts have been deleted or removed from the SOS site by anyone from SOS or any or our site moderators.James Steele wrote:Yeah... deleting Guitar Gaz's posts off their forum seems pretty weak.
I don't understand why GuitarGaz has made this allegation. I can see no evidence to support his claim from the site logs and none of my colleagues has removed any of his posts. I have invited GuitarGaz to contact me to investigate his assertions further.
However, at this time, and with the evidence before me, I have to assume that either the alleged missing posts are down to an operational error on his part, some unreported problem with the site, or it is a deliberate and malicious attempt to instill bad feeling.
Hugh
"Slander?" Really? Do I need to "lawyer up" now or what? Guitar Gaz said his post or posts were removed. I am just catching up with this thread, so I'll read on to see if you're saying he's a liar or not.SOS Hugh wrote:James Steele wrote:You might just want to check your facts before accepting someone else's unfounded claim and then inadvertantly slandering someone or some organisation ...
