PT 9 Native with MOTU interfaces?

[conleycd]

Good morning!

Well my suspicions (as many others too I'm sure) have been correct as today it appears as thought PT 9 is native with any CoreAudio or ASIO interface with all the features of HD (less TDM). Video and everything...

This may represent a race to the bottom. The DAW war just got a whole lot more intense.

$629 looks like the damage.

CC

[Tritonemusic]

Crossgrade from LE is $249.

[Phil O]

Good morning!

Well my suspicions (as many others too I'm sure) have been correct as today it appears as thought PT 9 is native with any CoreAudio or ASIO interface with all the features of HD (less TDM). Video and everything...

This may represent a race to the bottom. The DAW war just got a whole lot more intense.

$629 looks like the damage.

CC

Ah, but did you read the fine print? If you want ALL the features of HD, you have to add the Complete Production Toolkit 2 - $1995. It's not clear on the Avid site whether the toolkit includes PT 9 or is in addition to PT 9. Either way you're still looking at at least two grand (probably more) for the full monty. To me, the big item missing in the basic PT9 package is complete automation tools.

Phil

edit: I just noticed this is in the wrong forum. Can the OP change that, or does an admin need to do that?

[conleycd]

I didn't clue into the Production Kit. But there is a fair bit on it's own that PT 9 is capable of doing. $629 is a bigger price tag.

I hope if nothing else it will motivate MOTU to get hardware inserts/delay compensation.

That's about the only thing about it all that interests me.

CC

[dewdman42]

Its a bit evolutionary news, but frankly I don't see the concern for most of us. DP rules over PT in so many key ways related to MIDI in particular. But its an interesting direction for Avid and all I can say is, its about time. They have some nice plugins for that platform, so we'll see how it goes with PT. Dp has a very long legacy of MIDI work, it will take a lot for PT to catch up and I don't think they are particularly motivated to do so.

[rikp]

Another reason to REALLY love DP. Pro Tools 9 now has a USB Dongle

OUCH! I will stay far, far away!

Rik

[benmrx]

This is exactly what I plan on doing... MOTU hardware with PT9. We've already got a 24 I/O and a 2408mk2.... I just need to find a PCIe 424 card as I recently got a good deal on a used Mac Pro.

FWIW.... I have a feeling this might be my last visit to this forum. I just don't see a need to use DP anymore at this point. I'll miss some of the scoring features (the find tempo and streamers mostly) and I can always come running back if I need to...., but something tells me it just won't happen. Say what you will about PT and it's MIDI features, but there's quite a bit you can do in PT you can't do in DP. I fully understand the opposite is true also. There are definatly things DP can do that PT can't, but I have a feeling they're going to devote a LOT of energy towards getting more of the MIDI crowd into PT. It's painfully obvious that Avid has decided to take a giant step in a new direction.

Sure... there's still two basic versions of PT... Regular PT9 and PT9HD, but those differences aren't nearly as big as they used to be. I think the big thing at this point is the automation features and multiple movie tracks.., but basic PT9 has all the Timecode features now which is pretty huge.

As far as needing an iLok... I (and I think most users) already need an iLok the majority of the time to authorize plugins for what ever DAW they're using..., so I don't really see much of an issue there. I couldn't work in DP without an iLok because non of my plugs would work.

I would like to say thank you to everyone here that ever helped me learn DP. All that said.. this probably is the wrong forum for this discussion..... if anything this should go in the MOTU Hardware forum.

[dewdman42]

Say what you will about PT and it's MIDI features, but there's quite a bit you can do in PT you can't do in DP.

Can you please elaborate on this statement?

[benmrx]

• The grid for one gives you a choice between being relative or absolute (search my posts for issues with the DP grid)
• The 'MIDI Real Time Properties' function in PT is pretty amazing. The 'Legato' function I use on a daily basis.
• The fact that you can non-destructively quantize, and still have visual feedback on where your notes are.
• The 'Groove Extraction' feature in PT is just easier to use IMO... however, that's obviously subjective
• The Beat Detective feature in PT is much more flexible than DP's method.
• The fact that you can hit play... and be in the middle of a note, and still hear that note is pretty nice. I was always shocked DP didn't do this... maybe there's a preference I missed somewhere
• The MIDI smart tool is amazing when it comes to editing
• Seperate scrolling options for the MIDI edit window
• Ability to write in notes on multiple tracks at once (combined with some clever transposing in the 'MIDI Real Time Properties' window can give a seriously quick workflow for writing chords.
• MIDI Regions and the fact that the 'MIDI Real Time Properties' can either be used on whole tracks, or just individual regions.
• and that's just off the top of my head.

Obviously some of those things could be argued. I.E., maybe you think the groove extraction feature in DP walks all over PT. You could also argue that DP's MIDI plugins are the same as PT 'Real Time Properties' feature.... I really don't think so, but I could understand why that could be a valid argument.

Like I said.. there's plenty of things you can do in DP you can't in PT. I'll also really miss DP's 'search' window as the version of this PT has isn't nearly as complex, and I'll also REALLY miss the 'reshape' tool. Not to mention DP's arpegiator plugin.. I'm amazed that PT doesn't have any kind of arp. You just have to pick your poison.

[BradLyons]

Hey everyone, I'm actually in San Francisco right now at the AES show---well, right now I'm back in my hotel room but you know what I mean. Needless to say the Avid booth had the biggest buzz around it the entire show. The audio hardware manufacturers were all buzzing (and excited!) with this news, it really is going to help their sales because it's no longer "I want to buy this box but I needed PTLE". Now they can get what they want in hardware and still run PTLE. The ones that aren't going to be happy will be those that make DAW software, such as MOTU. But looking at it it will only make these other programs better, it has to---THEY HAVE TO. There is some serious competition now to make sure your software is dang good, updated often, more features added, etc. This is a game changer.

[James Steele]

My big question is what are the features that you have to pay $2000 to get with the Complete Production Toolkit? Personally, I have no compelling need but I can see why some might be interested.

iLok-phones beware though-- iLok authorization is required. At least on the currently available downloadable version.

[James Steele]

The ones that aren't going to be happy will be those that make DAW software, such as MOTU. But looking at it it will only make these other programs better, it has to---THEY HAVE TO. There is some serious competition now to make sure your software is dang good, updated often, more features added, etc. This is a game changer.

Well, DP 7.2 *IS* dang good and I think some DP users will buy a copy to smooth over the whole task over project conversion, just like they were buying MBoxes for. This way you don't have to rely on someone else to do it. I doubt people who are composing and using lots of MIDI, etc. are going to switchover from DP full-time to Pro Tools full time.

Also, I notice there is a $2000 upcharge for the Complete Production Toolkit which enables some features that are crippled in regular PT9, so Avid still hasn't sort of given up the "crippleware" model. What this seems to be is an admission by Avid that they're going to have to come down and compete with everyone else and that charging through the nose for proprietary cards and proprietary DSP isn't viable in the long term. Avid learned this in the video arena. Looks like we're seeing the beginning of the phase out of HD, except perhaps in studio that require real-time monitoring through plug-ins, which I thought was the real benefit remaining of TDM.

[conleycd]

Another reason to REALLY love DP. Pro Tools 9 now has a USB Dongle

OUCH! I will stay far, far away!

Rik

Well PT HD always has had an ilok dongle.

I have said it many times. I wouldn't mind if DP had an ilok. In fact, I would encourage it. I think more people would buy it rather than steal it.

CC

[mhschmieder]

Hey Brad, I tried to find you at the show today but didn't see a booth for GC Pro.

Yeah, you're right, everyone was all abuzz today about all the moves, on many levels, that Avid is making to "play nice" and become more open regarding interconnectivity.

In fact, that is a subject of another post that I'm still trying to decide how to compose, as it will contain a bit of evangelizing to convince MOTU to get on board a new evolving standard.

Part of the reason Avid added MADI, just to discuss one specific connectivity form factor and protocol, is that they had a turnabout regarding using Euphonix as their gateway into playing better with others, vs. turning the Euphonix series into more closed-shop devices.

You may have noticed how heavily they are advertising the updated Euphonix series (one has a new hardware version and the others have new firmware or drivers), in the context of Digital Performer. What a turnabout from a year ago!

[n2mpujack]

• The grid for one gives you a choice between being relative or absolute (search my posts for issues with the DP grid)
• The 'MIDI Real Time Properties' function in PT is pretty amazing. The 'Legato' function I use on a daily basis.
• The fact that you can non-destructively quantize, and still have visual feedback on where your notes are.
• The 'Groove Extraction' feature in PT is just easier to use IMO... however, that's obviously subjective
• The Beat Detective feature in PT is much more flexible than DP's method.
• The fact that you can hit play... and be in the middle of a note, and still hear that note is pretty nice. I was always shocked DP didn't do this... maybe there's a preference I missed somewhere
• The MIDI smart tool is amazing when it comes to editing
• Seperate scrolling options for the MIDI edit window
• Ability to write in notes on multiple tracks at once (combined with some clever transposing in the 'MIDI Real Time Properties' window can give a seriously quick workflow for writing chords.
• MIDI Regions and the fact that the 'MIDI Real Time Properties' can either be used on whole tracks, or just individual regions.
• and that's just off the top of my head.

Obviously some of those things could be argued. I.E., maybe you think the groove extraction feature in DP walks all over PT. You could also argue that DP's MIDI plugins are the same as PT 'Real Time Properties' feature.... I really don't think so, but I could understand why that could be a valid argument.

Like I said.. there's plenty of things you can do in DP you can't in PT. I'll also really miss DP's 'search' window as the version of this PT has isn't nearly as complex, and I'll also REALLY miss the 'reshape' tool. Not to mention DP's arpegiator plugin.. I'm amazed that PT doesn't have any kind of arp. You just have to pick your poison.

You do know PT has major issues with MIDI timing, right? Cruise on over to the DUC and give it a read sometimes. DigiTechSupport has even said it will take a major rewrite of PT code to fix it and it hasn't been fixed in this newest version of PT. So if you're doing as much with MIDI as you seem to want to do you'd be better off staying with DP (and this forum).