G5 or Dual G4 opinions

[Soundgoo]

Hey all, we are a smaller company looking to add a second system. Our current rig is a G4 dual 1.25 with a gig o' ram. We run DP 3.11(if it ain't broke...) but we are looking forward to 4.5. I don't know if we sould look at G5s or G4 duals. We must keep in mind that our costs must be passed on to the clients, so we must not waist money. We do mostly acoustic music, fewer tracks, fewer plugs, no soft snyths, so we don't really work our rig that hard. We know we must move to DP4.5 on osX but do you all, the pool of experts, think that a purcase of a G4 dual would be waisted? Will we be missing something we would use by not having a G5? Thanks for your help, and I must say that I love this site, it helps me so much with my work and it is nice to have a place to go for help. Peace, Aaron

[sdemott]

A dual G$ vs. a single G5? I'd go for the dual G4. OS X is much better on a dual processor system. The G5s are fast, but the 1.8GHz G5 (single) doesn't hold up to even a dual 1.25 G4 in CPU intensive apps (like DP or even Photoshop).

HTH

[denne]

Dual G4 - no question. I use a G5 2x1.8 and a G4 2x1.25 both on 10.3 and there is no project, that the G4 can't handle (20 to 30 audiotracks with lots of plugs, automation) Of course, there's a difference in speed, but it's still cool to work with the "old lady" - and to boot in OS9 to remember the times, when everything was better

[RBS]

We do mostly acoustic music, fewer tracks, fewer plugs, no soft snyths, so we don't really work our rig that hard.

Sounds like you have all the CPU that you need for now. A dual 1.25 G4 should run DP 4.5 under those conditions without breaking a sweat.

[Timeline]

I have a dual G5 2.5ghz running a pair of HD192's & DP4.5.

I have been a DP user since the first digital audio engine application was added to MIDI software.

Anyway... I find I can still max this CPU because of all the plugs I use especially Autotune & reverbs. The fact I run 96K 24bit with 45+ tracks loads me as well.

When it maxes out, it at least doesn't crash using a G5 like it used to but the top end goes away and you are left with midrange tones you won't like. This happens on all computers but lesser ones will begin to crash.

I still freeze tracks with plugs often to balance my headroom even on this "Top 'o' the Line" G5 2.5GHZ and I can tell you for sure that this & all machines have these limits depending on how you make your music.

Here's what I think we need to help users who can't afford a G5, G6 or whatever...:

MOTU needs to design a hybrid IO/plug PCI card that processes plugs and works out delays using a couple of screamin chips to unload the CPU while also handling the IO interfaces as a one slot solution.

I would also suggest they design it with plug on daughter card edge connector ports for other effect manufacturers to interface to due to the limit of PCI slots currently available in machines.

Such a card would advance DP into a new "pro" category beyond any bells and whistles software could add and make G4's and other 'lessor' computers available as working high end music production systems again saving the users tons of money and making MOTU a more competitive innovator.

ProTools sells additional effects as add on PCI cards with their system and we've been overloading our processors since OS 9 trying to make records with a virtual software system dependent on computer and buss speeds.

Apple sells Logic and deserves to have their own app. because they did an extreme favor to us all by creating the fastest machine in the world but they will have to double the speed to give us 48 tracks at 96K with real world plugin potential on any virtual software system like DP or Logic.

Back to your question:
As for machine selection, choose the fastest most processor MO-FO you can afford because with virtual software you will soon need more and more and more.

MOTU, expecting the speed technology of computers to advance their softwares usability has been less expensive true, but more like Japanese torture sessions than music sessions, in my opinion.

I have recently advised MOTU to consider such a cool card idea with the hopes a senior user like myself has some clout but who knows... It's MOTU.

Good Luck
Gary Brandt
Timeline

<img src="http://www.eirec.com/motu.jpg" alt=" - " />

[laurence]

Hi Aaron, I have a dual G4 1.25 with FW 800 (the model with 1Mb level 3 cache) .. It handles very well IMHO.. For what you say you do in your studio a G4 will do it easy ! .... I personally would have really liked a G5 but $$, circumstance and opportunity said get the G4.. <>no regrets<> i love it !... i think it's about taking the machine that feels right for the time..

good luck !

<small>[ November 11, 2004, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: * ApOllO * ]</small>

[swiftness]

Dual G5...

Just keep an eye on the special deals section of Apple. Right now they have dual 1.8GHz for $1699. They usually sell out during the day and update in the middle of the night.

[kazuya]

Hi,
i use a G4 1,25 Dual with a UAD installed. Works fine but i also worked with a G5 1,8 Dual and it‘s much faster. And the G4 is really loud. If you don‘t use Virtual instruments and not many tracks, the G4 does the job. But with plug in‘s like Altiverb and 60 Mono and 30 Stereovoices you get in trouble. If you don‘t need OS9 you get much more power with the G5. But i love my G4 with the UAD. The UAD Plug In‘s sound great.
If you can afford it, get a Dual G5 and you‘ll have enough power for the future...

Excuse my bad english. I‘m just a german.

[Soundgoo]

Great responses! I love Unicornation! This is the only place I can go and get honest opinions from pros not trying to sell me the gear. It sounds like what I am hearing is that a dual G4 is still a very cabable machine for our needs, bu the speed of a G5 could be worth the cost. I am leaning a bit toward the G5. I think that if I can make it a stable powerhouse it will streamline our work. Also this will force us into the present with OSX and DP 4.5. As long as I can count on it to work as reliable as our current G4 dual all will be well. Now to find a way to afford this beast without raising the room rates! Thanks all for your help.

[BradLyons]

I disagree on the Dual G4 v/s a Single G5. Processors speeds are important, but Bus-Speed is very important. A dual-processor G4 will certainly do a lot of work, but try running a Waves IR1 on that 167Mhz bus-speed v/s a 900Mhz bus-speed and then you'll really see the difference when you try to do multiples.

[sdemott]

Okay - here at work (I'm in the IT dept. of a marketing company) we have just about every machine apple currently makes. The dual G4s out perform the single G5s in Photoshop by a significant margin. Photoshop is a good gauge because it is a very CPU intensive app that requires contant reads/writes to the hard drive - much like DP.

The G5 is a great machine, but you're not going to get as much out of a single cpu as you would a dual - it's just a simple question of wait states and concurrent instructions.

Take it for what its worth.

[Timeline]

Thats very interesting about wait states on the G5 Steve....

I think your right about that especially when editing waveforms and moving around doing fades and stuff. G5 is not that fast.

I was able to do quite a bit with my Dual G4 before I traded up to G5 2.5ghz.

On this G5 I still find it is better but not by double a G4 1.25 dual by any means and in OS9 I think I remember screaming through audio files faster then OSX when editing files.

I find G5 audio just plain sounded better overall though
on the same music files like we are hearing the entire banwidth of the audio track instead of the big dulling effect I spoke of in my last reply.

Also, do you know where I can get a conversion plug to take the SATA pwr plug to regular 4 pin power? I want to run a scsi inside my G5.

Thanks
Gary

[studioprez]

Gary, liked your ideas about future interface development but I seriously doubt MOTU will develop another card compatiple with the old PCI buss. There's just too much pontential with the newer higher buss speed and judging by how they underestimated the demand for 424 cards when we all upgraded, I suspect they'll stake their future on the new format. So a G5(or G6,G7 ad infinitum) is still inevitable in everyones future.

Ben

[Kyle Dreaden]

Definitely stick with a dual 1.25 G4. My dual1.25 has been running DP4.5 incredibly well. Granted, I track at 48khz 24-bit, I can get a good 40-45 tracks with waves plugs without any issue. The single processor won't come close, no matter what it is.

[Timeline]

Your probably right Ben but not for that reason
but the expense of engineering in my opinion.

Here's some thoughts.

Now that Logic is taking market share from MOTU I think a single slot solution card could not be more timely and extremely profitable for MOTU regardless of any future change in MAC PCI architecture. Could compitition be the reason MOTU produced 4.5 suddenly as it appeared on the scene with no real fanfare?

Such a product could "One Up" Apple for sure because it gives could give us all choises like, do we need to spend another 3 grand this year to make our music? It could only be great for all of the virtual software users who use MOTU hardware of the PCI variety as I don;t think the Firewire structure will bandwidth support big systems like 48 IO's(4 HD192s).

For Apple to change PCI and orphan something as recent as a G4 or G5 to new buss structure would piss off quite a few users not only in this industry but graphics, video and others and I doubt that they would do that without leaving a few older slots onboard for compatibility as they have done in the past and as recently as the G5 with the xslot upgrades.

Companies like Sonnet Tech do quite well $$ propping up older computers so why not a MOTU Universal card for the audio industry.

I speculate such a product could be as a new MOTU product designed to work in addition to current software. When detected on a buss, DP software could option the user to use the card for plug processing or not. I don't see any of that as a big deal software wise. PC users would benefit even more due to slow MS OS.

Imagine how great it would be not to have to keep upgrading computers every year....

Thanks
Timeline