Bidule - One more thumbs up

[zed]

Yes, it is a game changer for sure. Simple but effective.

I've been working with it all night. Not exactly as easy to figure out as I'd hoped, because I think their new version (just posted this month) behaves a little differently from the videos and some of the descriptions above. But I think I have figured things out for the most part. Bidule had to be launched first in order for it to be recognized by DP with ReWire.

Definitely a game changer, indeed. It is so cool to create a great drum kit and then switch DP projects and be able to play that drum kit in another song without having to wait for the samples to load, and without having to reload effects and EQ. Everything is just ready to go!

But now, I've got to invest some serious time into making things "ready to go". It seems to me that the more effort that is put into creating a really useful Bidule template now, the less complicated things will be down the road. I want to set up all my go-to instruments in Bidule so that they will be available instantly in every project--now and forever!

Thanks for this thread guys! I have been putting this off for a long time. I am glad to be under way with this.

[Tripi]

Another good option is to use JackOSX instead of Rewire. Jack lets you specify the exact number of audio outputs, which can all show up in DP as Aux returns. The main benefit of Jack over Rewire is that Rewire will only utilize one processing core total. Jack will use as many cores as your computer has. You can also specifiy which items in Bidule use which cores, or leave it automatic. Big resource heavy plugins like Play really benefit from this.

[zed]

Another good option is to use JackOSX instead of Rewire. Jack lets you specify the exact number of audio outputs, which can all show up in DP as Aux returns. The main benefit of Jack over Rewire is that Rewire will only utilize one processing core total. Jack will use as many cores as your computer has. You can also specifiy which items in Bidule use which cores, or leave it automatic. Big resource heavy plugins like Play really benefit from this.

How easy is it to switch from ReWire to JackOSX? Is this something I have to decide right now, or am I going to run into complications with my templates if I change this later?

Also... does anyone have a recommendation for the best way to set things up so that I can still use AudioHijack Pro to capture my rough mixes each day? So far, I can hear all the Bidule audio from within DP, but capturing that audio in a quick mixdown is obviously going to take some more head scratching and rerouting. If anyone has worked through this and has some suggestions, I would appreciate a few pointers.

[cbergm7210]

Another good option is to use JackOSX instead of Rewire. Jack lets you specify the exact number of audio outputs, which can all show up in DP as Aux returns. The main benefit of Jack over Rewire is that Rewire will only utilize one processing core total. Jack will use as many cores as your computer has. You can also specifiy which items in Bidule use which cores, or leave it automatic. Big resource heavy plugins like Play really benefit from this.

How easy is it to switch from ReWire to JackOSX? Is this something I have to decide right now, or am I going to run into complications with my templates if I change this later?

Also... does anyone have a recommendation for the best way to set things up so that I can still use AudioHijack Pro to capture my rough mixes each day? So far, I can hear all the Bidule audio from within DP, but capturing that audio in a quick mixdown is obviously going to take some more head scratching and rerouting. If anyone has worked through this and has some suggestions, I would appreciate a few pointers.

zed, I use AHP all the time with DP / Bidule projects. Is there something different than the usual process of hijacking the audio from DP when Bidule is involved?

[Dan Worley]

I haven't tried it yet because I don't usually use AHJ for that purpose, but I don't see any reason why AHJ would work any different than before. The audio is coming from DP's Bidule Aux tracks. AHJ should capture it from DP just as it did before. That's my guess anyway.

BTW, I'm completely lovin' Bidule. It has opened up a whole new world for me, and has quickly taken care of some problems I was having with my various work templates.

Thanks for starting this thread, Chris.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[zed]

zed, I use AHP all the time with DP / Bidule projects. Is there something different than the usual process of hijacking the audio from DP when Bidule is involved?

Well... to tell you the truth... I didn't set it up with an Aux in DP because I didn't have to. Bidule output components just showed up automatically in my Tracks overview and they worked just fine without setting up an Aux.

But I realize that this means (I believe) that I am hearing the signal from my 2408 outputs, and it is not actually being passed through DP, which is why Audio Hijack is not capturing the signal, and why the behavior is the same as the external MIDI modules which I have set up this way.

But when I tried to set up an Aux track to get the sound routed directly through DP I could not find a way to get any signal into the Aux track. I tried all the Plogue Bidule Device outputs and none of them carried any signal, even though I could hear Bidule VIs playing as DP was playing. So there must be something I have to do in my actual Bidule template in order to get the signal routed into one of those Plogue Bidule Device outputs.

Still a bit of head scratching to do, but I'm glad to hear from you guys that it is possible to set this up so that it will work conveniently with Audio Hijack, etc.

[rikp]

Two BIG thumbs up for me. I am running all my EW Play libraries in Bidule. Works like a charm. In fact, it is now part of my orchestral template for DP.

Peace

Rikp

[Dan Worley]

zed, I use AHP all the time with DP / Bidule projects. Is there something different than the usual process of hijacking the audio from DP when Bidule is involved?

Well... to tell you the truth... I didn't set it up with an Aux in DP because I didn't have to. Bidule output components just showed up automatically in my Tracks overview and they worked just fine without setting up an Aux.

But I realize that this means (I believe) that I am hearing the signal from my 2408 outputs, and it is not actually being passed through DP, which is why Audio Hijack is not capturing the signal, and why the behavior is the same as the external MIDI modules which I have set up this way.

But when I tried to set up an Aux track to get the sound routed directly through DP I could not find a way to get any signal into the Aux track. I tried all the Plogue Bidule Device outputs and none of them carried any signal, even though I could hear Bidule VIs playing as DP was playing. So there must be something I have to do in my actual Bidule template in order to get the signal routed into one of those Plogue Bidule Device outputs.

Still a bit of head scratching to do, but I'm glad to hear from you guys that it is possible to set this up so that it will work conveniently with Audio Hijack, etc.

Zed. I don't know if this will help or not, but this is what I did--

1. Open Bidule. From its Preferences change the Virtual MIDI Ports from 4 to 16 or 32.

2. Close Bidule and then launch it and close it again.

3. In DP
a.) Go into Bundles > Instruments and change the name of Bidule's bundles so they're not as long. If they're not showing up in the vertical column just add them.
b.) Add an Aux track in DP with Bidule 1-2 as the input (this will make Bidule go into Rewire mode when you launch it).
c.) Output the Aux to whichever outputs you usually use for monitoring. (I leave the routing up to you).

4. Launch Bidule.

5. From Bidule's Pallette:
a.) MIDI Devices > Input. Drag the Bidule-1 input into the work area. (You can also ctrl click in the grey area and select from the menu.)
b.) Open the AU Music Devices folder. Drag whichever library or player you want onto the work area.
c.) Connect the MIDI device and Music device with a cable.

6. Double click on the Music device module and load in an instrument.

7. Right-click on the MIDI device and and select Rename so you can name it something useful (this will show up in DP). Do the same for the Music device.

8. Connect the first two outputs of the Music Device to the first two inputs of the Bidule Rewire device.

9. Go back to DP.

10. Add a MIDI track and output it to the Bidule Aux. Input from your MIDI keyboard.

I think that's it.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[jloeb]

Another good option is to use JackOSX instead of Rewire. Jack lets you specify the exact number of audio outputs, which can all show up in DP as Aux returns. The main benefit of Jack over Rewire is that Rewire will only utilize one processing core total. Jack will use as many cores as your computer has. You can also specifiy which items in Bidule use which cores, or leave it automatic. Big resource heavy plugins like Play really benefit from this.

This sounds like I can't afford not to do it. Does JacOSX work with delay compensation in DP or without?

Jeez, any plans to make Rewire multicore compatible?

[charlesparente]

Another good option is to use JackOSX instead of Rewire. Jack lets you specify the exact number of audio outputs, which can all show up in DP as Aux returns. The main benefit of Jack over Rewire is that Rewire will only utilize one processing core total. Jack will use as many cores as your computer has. You can also specifiy which items in Bidule use which cores, or leave it automatic. Big resource heavy plugins like Play really benefit from this.

But if you use OSX Jack or Soundflower to route the Bidule audio back into DP, don't you have latency to deal with??

How do you handle that??
Sounds like another headache.

Rewire is the shizzle b/c you don't need to deal with latency--it's just dead on in my experience...but sure does suck how it only uses one core.

How does Bidule compare with VE Pro?
I think Tripi uses both. I have VE Pro but am not an expert user yet.

[jloeb]

Just downloaded JackOSX and its documentation; the word "latency" is entirely absent from the manual, which I can only take to mean that JackOSX doesn't deal with it.

At this point, neither of these really seems to be hugely useful if you're on a multicore machine, since you're forced to choose between one core or latency compensation. Yuck.

Guess Kontakt memory farm is as close as I'll be getting to an external host for a while.

cbergm7210, you obviously don't consider the single-core limitation to be a deal breaker. Do you not consider this a disadvantage when going through Rewire? I mean what's the point of having an 8-core (which I do as well) if you can only use one core for all your major VIs? Or are 8 Nehalems so good that you don't even notice?

[zed]

cbergm7210, you obviously don't consider the single-core limitation to be a deal breaker. Do you not consider this a disadvantage when going through Rewire? I mean what's the point of having an 8-core (which I do as well) if you can only use one core for all your major VIs? Or are 8 Nehalems so good that you don't even notice?

Just because ReWire is only using one core, doesn't necessarily mean that Bidule isn't using all 8 cores to process and work with VIs. Isn't the ReWire aspect just for communication between the applications. It probably doesn't really create much limitation except with very big templates. I would be more concerned about lack of latency compensation.

8. Connect the first two outputs of the Music Device to the first two inputs of the Bidule Rewire device.

Thanks for your list of steps Dan. Most of what you suggested is exactly what I did, although I have never seen Bidule refer to anything as a ReWire device. I assumed it was working in ReWire mode simply because it is talking to DP and working, but the last item in my Bidule chain is a stereo mixer followed by a PCI-424(out). What are the last items in your Bidule chains?

And which version of Bidule are you guys running? The latest version was just uploaded this month after a period of no versions being available. I am curious to know if you are running the same version as I am (v0.9702).

[Dan Worley]

Thanks for your list of steps Dan. Most of what you suggested is exactly what I did, although I have never seen Bidule refer to anything as a ReWire device. I assumed it was working in ReWire mode simply because it is talking to DP and working, but the last item in my Bidule chain is a stereo mixer followed by a PCI-424(out). What are the last items in your Bidule chains?

Zed,

Here's a screenshot.



Those Rewire devices just came up automatically when I opened Bidule, but I think you can drag them from the Rewire Device folder in the palette. The top and bottom devices are paired as one device.

And which version of Bidule are you guys running? The latest version was just uploaded this month after a period of no versions being available. I am curious to know if you are running the same version as I am (v0.9702).

I'm using the same version as you.

c-ya,

Dan Worley

[jloeb]

Just because ReWire is only using one core, doesn't necessarily mean that Bidule isn't using all 8 cores to process and work with VIs. Isn't the ReWire aspect just for communication between the applications. It probably doesn't really create much limitation except with very big templates. I would be more concerned about lack of latency compensation.

Remind me not to post while both sleep deprived *and* undergoing caffeine withdrawal. Of course you're correct; there's no way people could be running large orchestral templates using this system unless Bidule's core usage were unaffected by Rewire's. (And how much cpu could MIDI/audio streaming alone really eat on a fast machine?)

Ok i'll have to try this with Rewire.

[zed]

Here's a screenshot.



Those Rewire devices just came up automatically when I opened Bidule, but I think you can drag them from the Rewire Device folder in the palette. The top and bottom devices are paired as one device.

Hey Dan! Thanks very much for posting the image and confirming that we are using the same version number. After adding the Instrument bundle in DP, I was able to relaunch Bidule in ReWire mode. It even converted the default template I had been building yesterday into a ReWire version.

Everything is behaving the same as it was in DP last night, except that now I am able to add the Aux track in my V-Rack and get the Bidule signal to pass through it--so Audio Hijack Pro is working just fine again and I'm a happy fellar.

I appreciate the help you have given me with this!

I see you also have Abbey Road '60s Drums. That was one of my main reasons for wanting to set up Bidule! Those Abbey Road kits take so long to load, and yet are so good that you kind of want access to them in almost everything!! Life is going to become easier once I have put together my master template.

Just ordered another 8GB of RAM tonight, in hopes of making this work as smoothly as possible.