Some plug ins do...Some don't

[whoshivsagit]

I've noticed that some plug ins do not allow you to start and stop
(space bar) DP while you have the plug in "highlighted". Some like the MW EQ (and several others), you can start and stop DP with the space bar while you have the plug in active on the screen. While others.."AU pitch" for example you have to exit the plug in..to start and stop DP.
Can anyone address this issue? It is a real pain to have to
back out of certain plug ins just to start or stop DP.

Using DP 7.02/Mac Pro/Snow leopard.

Thanks!!

rm/austin

[Phil O]

There is a problem where some plug-ins block transport keyboard shortcuts when their window is open. It has been discussed here before (try the search feature). The transport still works if you click on it, but the keyboard shortcuts don't. Motu is aware of the problem, but I don't know if it's at MOTU's end or the plug-in manufacturer's end. Sometimes there's a lot of finger pointing before these things get fixed. So the quick workaround is just click on the transport.

Phil

[Gabe S.]

The way this has been explained to me is that this is a DP issue that appears when using Cocoa-based plugins. All current versions of Spectrasonics' VI instruments suffer this issue, but only in DP. I have been told by a (non-MOTU) senior software engineer who is familiar with the matter that the fix is up to MOTU.

Cheers.
-gabe

[Frodo]

Some plugins simply don't-- and it's not unique to DP.

[zed]

I have been told by a (non-MOTU) senior software engineer who is familiar with the matter that the fix is up to MOTU.

While I would agree that it is up to MOTU to make the is problem go away, it is not beyond the developers to prevent the problem from happening. I do beta testing for a VI that had this problem, and after drawing attention to this issue they developer was able to modify the behavior, but I gather that this is extra work for each developer to do (and which most developers overlook, either because they are not aware of it or because it involves extra programming which they don't feel they should have to do).

It would be great if MOTU would fix things on their end so that developers didn't have to worry about this.

[Frodo]

Keep in mind that this is not a new behavior. When VSL first released its library in its own interface, it overrode DP's key commands (ie: spacebar, etc.). I was using DP 5.x at the time and changed nothing in DP at all, except to install VSL which was, at the time, the only VI or plugin I had which worked this way. If I recall, the first release of the interface was intended to always stay on top-- one could not even click back in DP to put the VI in the background. It took users to express their desire to have this changed, and it was up to VSL and not MOTU to make that happen.

It makes me question where the burden of responsibility rests as some VI developers have released products with this behavior and others have not (like products from IK Multimedia which work just fine). We *know* that it *can* work in DP, so that would suggest that VI developers might be the ones to be approached first.

[zed]

We *know* that it *can* work in DP, so that would suggest that VI developers might be the ones to be approached first.

And yet, if these plugins generally don't have the same issue in other DAWs, and it requires extra programming to prepare the plugins in DP, I would say that MOTU should do something to render the extra steps unnecessary (or at least provide developers with instructions on what they need to do in order to counteract the issue).

[GlennO]

This problem is a flaw in DP and can only be fixed by MOTU. If this problem matters you, I would highly recommend you contact MOTU (http://www.motu.com/techsupport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and let them know you think MOTU should be giving this problem high priority.

Here are the facts:
The problem is a flaw in the way DP handles all Cocoa-based plugins. Older audio unit plugins are not Cocoa-based, but many new or modern audio unit plugins are Cocoa-based. This trend will grow and the number of plugins which are Cocoa-based will increase. In fact, to be 64 bit, a plugin must be Cocoa-based. Given the importance of 64 bit support to musicians (Logic and VSL VEPro are now 64 bit on the Mac (by the way, no other host has this flaw)), Cocoa-based plugins will soon be the rule rather than the exception.

I've been in contact with MOTU engineers on this matter. I can tell you MOTU is aware of the problem, understands the fault lies in DP, and knows what they must do to fix it. It is simply a matter of priority. So, if you feel they should fix this sooner rather than later, you should contact MOTU and make your opinion known.

Glenn Olander
Spectrasonics

[James Steele]

Yep... it's my understanding that a MOTU fix is necessary. That's one of the reasons I've remained on Stylus RMX 1.8.2 I believe as later versions caused DP to have transport problems with it. As for the "importance of 64 bit support to musicians" I think that's overblown and unnecessary for over 90% of musicians, yet they all know the buzzword and demand developers deliver. But that's another topic altogether...

[newrigel]

As for the "importance of 64 bit support to musicians" I think that's overblown and unnecessary for over 90% of musicians, yet they all know the buzzword and demand developers deliver. But that's another topic altogether...

Just market hype... music creation still takes ingenuity and 32 bit will be with us and very useful for years and years to come...

[GlennO]

Actually, yes, 64 bit is extremely important, especially for users of sample-based virtual instruments. It completely eliminates the onerous 4GB memory limitation of 32 bit applications which is the source of so many problems when working with computer-based music production. If you don't believe this is a big problem, spend a day on a tech support line for a major DAW or plugin maker .

However, regardless of 64 bit or 32 bit, the future is Cocoa-based plugins. This means, unfortunately, DP users will be left behind until MOTU provides full support for these plugins.

Glenn Olander
Spectrasonics

[James Steele]

As for the "importance of 64 bit support to musicians" I think that's overblown and unnecessary for over 90% of musicians, yet they all know the buzzword and demand developers deliver. But that's another topic altogether...

Just market hype... music creation still takes ingenuity and 32 bit will be with us and very useful for years and years to come...

I'm not saying it won't be a good thing. I'm just saying that the percentage of users who run the sort of intensive projects wherein they are actually impeded by the lack of 64-bit support is probably rather small. I'm not saying it isn't exciting and will be great when it happens universally, but I just think much of the noise on forums and those griping the loudest aren't the same people who actually will realize the sort of benefit that will make an immediate difference in their ability to make music.

[James Steele]

Actually, yes, 64 bit is extremely important, especially for users of sample-based virtual instruments. It completely eliminates the onerous 4GB memory limitation of 32 bit applications which is the source of so many problems when working with computer-based music production. If you don't believe this is a big problem, spend a day on a tech support line for a major DAW or plugin maker .

However, regardless of 64 bit or 32 bit, the future is Cocoa-based plugins. This means, unfortunately, DP users will be left behind until MOTU provides full support for these plugins.

Glenn, I know all about what 64-bit means to users of sample-based virtual instruments. What I submit to you is that many of the people grousing the loudest on the forums, etc. aren't really being held back significantly by this limitation but rather it's the cool thing to complain about. These people grouse about it in forums-- it's no surprise they call tech support lines as well.

[Kubi]

Thanks Glenn for the information! I agree it's a good idea to let MOTU know this is an issue that is of importance to DP users. I'm also pretty convinced they probably already treat it as such - as more and more plugs get updated, more and more plugs would otherwise become a bit of a pain to use in DP.

And to me at least 64bit will be of immense importance. But it's not just that, it's also i.e. the other improvements in the current versions of Stylus and Omnisphere that I would like to take advantage of without losing my keyboard controls.

[KEVORKIAN]

Glenn, Thanks for the post.

It's always good to see developers show that they care by posting here. I'll contact Motu again (as I have in the past), however I am sure that they are aware of this issue and I assume their plan to address it must be a part of a larger DP update.