for DP/PTools users, PTools for Snow Leopard (finally)

[pcm]

As for The PPC aspect of it, I can see sooner (rather then later) Motu doing exactly the
same thing with DP.
Digidesign as a company?..yeah..no surprise there..

And MOTU would be correct in doing so. But I think MOTU has the wherewithal not to get everyone to pony up for an upgrade and then pull support for that upgrade before fixing some major issues. Avid should have left the PPC people at 7.4.2 or advanced them to the next major release - I mean to drop support at the 8.0.1 release is a true slap in the face. This would be the equivalent of MOTU telling PPC folks that the 7.02 update is Intel only and live with whatever bugs we're fixing for the Intel folks.

The PTLE8 update was a paid update, as was DP7. But this is all semantics here. DP7 is really DP6.1, but they charged for it because it was over a year later, and they wanted their subscription fee, just like every other update business model-based company does. PTLE 8.03 has also come out a year later (after 8.0), but is not being called PTLE9. Would you rather they call it PTLE9, and charge you another $150., so that you can then say that PPC (and DAE) support ended with a major release? How is this different?

Personally, I'd rather keep my $150., than pay $199. for a .dot release bug fix version.

[ssfm]

With all of the moves that Avid has been pulling lately, this should not be a surprise. The thing that surprised me the most was the introduction of PT Essentials a while back.

I can't believe they would actually introduce yet another version of ProTools. Their product matrix (and website) is a jumbled, confusing mess of versions, all with different feature sets, limitations, hardware requirements, etc. It's reminiscent of Apple 15 years ago, when they had probably a dozen different computer models. If Avid management had any sense, they would dump the entire HD/LE/Mpowered/Essentials scheme, and sell one product called ProTools that runs natively on whatever hardware the customer chooses to use. Their development and support costs would drop to a fraction of what they spend now.

[Don T]

Hello,
Big deal, I'm going to use the PPC (read old) systems until they are no longer viable. I mainly record, edit and mix audio. Heck, it wasn't that long ago I was using OS 8.6 and DP 3.11 on my hot rod 1ghz G3, one of the most stable platforms ever. Our dual G5 PPC, OS 10.4.8, DP 5.12 boxes are also rock solid. We measure stability in crashes per year. Anyone read the various systems / PT stability page rated in crashes per day?
That being said I am currently working with DP 7.02, OS 10.4.8 & 10.4.11 stability to see if I can stay current for my students without a huge capital outlay. PT has to remain frozen where it is (HD 7.3.1), it's pretty stable too. The difference is Digidesign's way of doing business. To upgrade PT would cost a minimum of $10k with all the hardware and plug-in upgrades. Come to think of it, every upgrade has cost $10k for the same reasons.
I don't blame apple for moving forward, people spend a lot of money to have the latest greatest gear. They have been real good about adding features to old OS so their hardware customers can stay current (10.3.9 & 10.4.11). I have always considered Apple a hardware company that supplies compatible software and they do a pretty good job of it. Sooner or later though they have to move on. Nubus > PCI > PCI-x > PCI-e >????????

[sdfalk]

As for The PPC aspect of it, I can see sooner (rather then later) Motu doing exactly the
same thing with DP.
Digidesign as a company?..yeah..no surprise there..

And MOTU would be correct in doing so. But I think MOTU has the wherewithal not to get everyone to pony up for an upgrade and then pull support for that upgrade before fixing some major issues. Avid should have left the PPC people at 7.4.2 or advanced them to the next major release - I mean to drop support at the 8.0.1 release is a true slap in the face. This would be the equivalent of MOTU telling PPC folks that the 7.02 update is Intel only and live with whatever bugs we're fixing for the Intel folks.

The PTLE8 update was a paid update, as was DP7. But this is all semantics here. DP7 is really DP6.1, but they charged for it because it was over a year later, and they wanted their subscription fee, just like every other update business model-based company does. PTLE 8.03 has also come out a year later (after 8.0), but is not being called PTLE9. Would you rather they call it PTLE9, and charge you another $150., so that you can then say that PPC (and DAE) support ended with a major release? How is this different?

Personally, I'd rather keep my $150., than pay $199. for a .dot release bug fix version.

Call it what you like, but I'll call it money well spent..
I thought there was a helluva lot more to it then a bug fix
and choose to disagree with you..

[sdfalk]

Yah know I was going to post a helluva lot more then the above post.. but I sensed the
pointless circlejerk of silly debate..and thought...nahhhhh

[Shooshie]

The PTLE8 update was a paid update, as was DP7. But this is all semantics here. DP7 is really DP6.1, but they charged for it because it was over a year later, and they wanted their subscription fee, just like every other update business model-based company does. PTLE 8.03 has also come out a year later (after 8.0), but is not being called PTLE9. Would you rather they call it PTLE9, and charge you another $150., so that you can then say that PPC (and DAE) support ended with a major release? How is this different?

Personally, I'd rather keep my $150., than pay $199. for a .dot release bug fix version.

I've been around for nearly every upgrade of Performer and Digital Performer after that, and I think that DP7 was one of the best .0 upgrades ever.

[newrigel]

I can't wait till Universal Audio's UAD 3 platform has vintage virtual consoles he he...
This is going to be the next step and the computers are getting so damn fast the native thing is well... smokin' the HD rigs he he.

They can have that $50k doorstop! With Lexicon and everyone else going native PT's is on it's way out really... it's only inevitable!

They are cutting out tons of users that buy the HD stuff too because of no DAE support... oh well. I'd rather do other things with my $$ than spend it all on a DAW anyway because it's only part of the whole picture to getting good quality audio... you need conversion, mics etc. and to blow all your $$ on just cards that will be obsolete is throwing $$ away IMO... plus your locked into the digi mindset.

[NazRat]

And now another twist:

New York (December 14, 2009)—Following months of industry speculation, Avid has officially licensed Mackie’s Onyx-i mixers to work with Avid Pro Tools M-Powered 8 software.

from an article in Pro Sound News http://www.prosoundnews.com/article/25866 .

This is even more surprising than the Essentials release and inexpensive too. They're all over the map. Maybe Avid has come to their senses and discovered that they are actually in the software business these days. No more 'we don't sell software' BS from Digi.

[stephentayler]

Actually from what I can tell at Digi's website, v8.03 is only for PT HD, both LE and M-powered still seem to be at 8.0.1

Cheers

Stephen

[martian]

Yah know I was going to post a helluva lot more then the above post.. but I sensed the
pointless circlejerk of silly debate..and thought...nahhhhh

Haha! but u might as well have a go for fun!

ditching the old OS etc makes sense- but ditching an external device which remained in service for several more years? it wasnt the PCI card that was out of date! just the G3/4 was wheezing!

[BobK]

Actually from what I can tell at Digi's website, v8.03 is only for PT HD, both LE and M-powered still seem to be at 8..0.1

No, that's not correct. All three versions get the 8.03 update.

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?nav ... emid=40434

[stephentayler]

Actually from what I can tell at Digi's website, v8.03 is only for PT HD, both LE and M-powered still seem to be at 8..0.1

No, that's not correct. All three versions get the 8.03 update.

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?nav ... emid=40434

Thanks so much for that.... I was going in through the Support & downloads page, where it was not listed.....

Cheers

Stephen

[pcm]

The PTLE8 update was a paid update, as was DP7. But this is all semantics here. DP7 is really DP6.1, but they charged for it because it was over a year later, and they wanted their subscription fee, just like every other update business model-based company does. PTLE 8.03 has also come out a year later (after 8.0), but is not being called PTLE9. Would you rather they call it PTLE9, and charge you another $150., so that you can then say that PPC (and DAE) support ended with a major release? How is this different?

Personally, I'd rather keep my $150., than pay $199. for a .dot release bug fix version.

I've been around for nearly every upgrade of Performer and Digital Performer after that, and I think that DP7 was one of the best .0 upgrades ever.

I agree. But that is because (in my opinion) DP7 is in fact DP6.1.

[spirit]

"It's not like your machine isn't going to work anymore because support for it stopped from a third party software vendor. You can still use whatever program in question you're currently running on your ancient PPC"

It is like your machine isn't going to work PROPERLY because there are dozens of BUG fixes in 8.03 that digidesign is not committing to release for people who invested in PT hardware, PT 8 etc. The recurring sentinment at the DUC is "You may not owe us the new features, you do have an obligation to fix the bugs". 8.03 is not even a new feature number (though admittedly they added a couple)- it's a bug fix increment- and they are disregarding a large number of users who perhaps should not be surprised at a new version with significant new features not supporting ppc, but do expect the software and hardware they paid for to work correctly on the system it was specified to work with (ppc leopard).

Also there are users who have to access and recall sessions from a long range of time and have them sound the same when opened- just abandoning your old computer for the "new" supposedly better (anybody else find spotlite lacking some basic funcationality the old tiger finder had?) new computer could mean that for just one example, autotune or nativeinstrument plugins may not open or sound the same on the new computer, etc.

[spirit]

DP 5.13 will run fine on a thee year old machine, right? If you are not willing, or able to upgrade your systems, at some point you and your system will no longer be supported. To do otherwise is to cripple everyone else. Not fair or realistic.

.

Actually DP 5.13 DAE was severely limited with no implementation of multiple outputs from RTAS VI's.
DP6 implemented mulitple RTAS outputs, but now couldn't bounce to disk or record from a buss, meaning you'd have to go out hardware to print a mix. Also on many RTAS Vi's the GUI was so screwed up you had to guess where to click for a function because it was offset a few inches (not the same in each VI) from where the GUI showed it (if it wasn't partly blank).
DP 7 promised to fix these things- a selling point of DP 7 was new improved DAE functions.
Pretty promising, but lack of tempo sync for VI's and a couple of issues have DP/DAE users thinking - this should be a small bug fix- DP 7.03 maybe. Now, without giving any warning, Digidesign pretty much takes away any reason for MOTU to spend a few hours on this.

Here we bought DP7 for DAE entirely, and digidesign is basically saying, "We are looking ahead, so we are not going to support our user base"

It totally lacks integrity to abandon users before delivering what was promised.
Be glib if you like when it doesn't affect you, but wait and see how you feel marginalized when something you find important to work with becomes "dispensible".
Or maybe some users can be content with their creativety resticted to just whatever loops and sounds are in fashionas the latest at any given moment.