How many folks are using DP Mixerless?

[FutureLegends]

Used to have a Soundcraft Ghost. But then we moved and our new control room is tiny. So basically I was just using the Ghost for extra pre-amps when our outboard ones ran out. Hardly ever used it for mixing cause it's so much easier to go back and fix things in the computer. So sold it and got a new computer and a Line Audio 8MP (8 channel pre-amp) to cover the needs when recording lots of stuff at once.
I don't really miss it. Just that it looks so much better with a big console in the studio. But I like the extra space we got.

[wylie1]

But I like the extra space we got.

That's something I'm starting to look forward to.

[BobK]

I'm late to this party, but for the purposes of mixing DAW projects, I'm mixerless too, and always have been. However, I do have an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2 DX in a rack which I use for:

- monitoring the outputs of my audio interfaces
- monitoring my keyboard and hardware sound module
- mixing in a talkback mic to monitor mixes, before sending them to a Furman headphone system

Until last year, when I bought my first Metric Halo interface, which contains mic pres, I had a MOTU 1224, and used the Allen & Heath mic pres for recording (they sounded just fine!).

I could get rid of the mixer if I really wanted to, but so far haven't felt the need. It's in the same rolling rack as my audio interfaces, power conditioner, headphone amp, etc, so it's not like it's taking up needed desk space.

I could also try using the A & H for summing, but I've been satisfied with my in-the-box mixes.

[David Polich]

I'm late to this party, but for the purposes of mixing DAW projects, I'm mixerless too, and always have been. However, I do have an Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2 DX in a rack which I use for:

- monitoring the outputs of my audio interfaces
- monitoring my keyboard and hardware sound module
- mixing in a talkback mic to monitor mixes, before sending them to a Furman headphone system

Until last year, when I bought my first Metric Halo interface, which contains mic pres, I had a MOTU 1224, and used the Allen & Heath mic pres for recording (they sounded just fine!).

I could get rid of the mixer if I really wanted to, but so far haven't felt the need. It's in the same rolling rack as my audio interfaces, power conditioner, headphone amp, etc, so it's not like it's taking up needed desk space.

I could also try using the A & H for summing, but I've been satisfied with my in-the-box mixes.

FWIW, I have yet to read a convincing argument for mixing outside the box.

If you're monitoring back through your little audio interface and then into
your monitors, and you go from that to an SSL or Neve in a great sounding studio - yeah, duh, it's going to sound better. The issue is not ITB or OTB,
it's what you're monitoring through.

Get an Apogee ensemble (or even something like a set of Prism or Lucent converters),
a pair of Event Opals and fix your room's acoustics and you'll be amazed
at how much better ITB mixing will sound to you.

[Gabe S.]

I am mixerless. Thank goodness! There's just no room here for that! And who wants the hassle?

I have a ULN-8 and a Mobile IO+DSP. The ULN-8 sounds AWESOME! I listen to that. The Mobile IO is great because I can route the SPDIF of my Mbox 2 to the Mobile IO, and then send that to the ULN-8, so I can monitor ProTools through my ULN-8. That works great. ProTools sounds completely clean via the spdif, as opposed to using those cheap nasty analog outs.

I use an SPL 2489 to control my Genelec surround setup. It sounds great and gives me a physical analog knob to control a full surround setup. Love that.

And, I use a Presonus Faderport for transport and the 1 fader. Hey, what can I say, I grew up mixing with faders, so I'm comfortable mixing with a physical fader---and the FaderPort is a nice fader. And I don't need more than 1. Plus, the transport allows me to play DP sequences even if DP is in the background, which is all the time because I use RDC to monitor my pcs, and now I use Bidule on the mac too. It's nice to have a transport that's always there.

As far as I'm concerned, a mixer would only tie my hands. It would have to have a gazillion inputs (I have over 60 inputs in here between my 2408s, MH Labs, MBox2 and it could go over 100 inputs if I maxed out my 2408s) and it would need a SERIOUS surround monitor panel to even get in the game, plus I'd need a zillion auxes......forget that. (An analog summing box would be cool, but I don't have any at the moment.)

Mixerless all the way baby!

Cheers.
-gabe

[danworks]

If you're monitoring back through your little audio interface and then into
your monitors, and you go from that to an SSL or Neve in a great sounding studio - yeah, duh, it's going to sound better. The issue is not ITB or OTB,
it's what you're monitoring through.

"Digital summing has one critical problem; that the output bit depth is equal to or less than each of the internal signals. This means that when signals are summed, some data must be thrown away. Moreover the volume of data discarded in this process increases with your track count. It would, of course be unfair to suggest that modern software performs this data reduction indiscriminately or with especially poor results, however many engineers and producers have found there to be something harsh in their digital mixes – often employing an analogue console purely to make use of its summing bus and high headroom."

Try this:
1- mix ITB
2- route your output to a 16 faders big console, then mix (record back to your to DAW)
3- route your output to a summing box, then mix (record back to your to DAW)

Get the three mixes, blind listen to them into a trustful control room and tell me if they sound the same

[HCMarkus]

Yes, and I'd buy one if I didn't have a new Benchmark DAC1 as my digital to analog converter feeding my monitors directly. Putting anything else in the path would just degrade the sound. That's why I'd love to find something super simple.
Martin

Who says you have to run your monitor signal thru the device? Keep your monitors on the pristine direct feed you prefer, take an extra output from the Benchmark, or another interface, and run it to the monitor controller for headphone feeds and talkback only.

I seriously doubt your recoding clients will complain about sound quality in their cans with even a budget controller.

[James Steele]

Get the three mixes, blind listen to them into a trustful control room and tell me if they sound the same

Hmmm... maybe not but my bank account looks better. If you don't have the dough for the very high quality mixers or summing gear, you're better of ITB.

[danworks]

Get the three mixes, blind listen to them into a trustful control room and tell me if they sound the same

Hmmm... maybe not but my bank account looks better. If you don't have the dough for the very high quality mixers or summing gear, you're better of ITB.

Money? Who needs money?
I understand what you say James, but a decent summing box starts from $1500, which is not like giving away an arm and a leg. I'm sure you'd enjoy a lot, especially if you're one of those guy into the tough rock guitar type of music … aren't you?

[wylie1]

This is still a work in progress for me.
I have a cabling question.
I want to bring the inputs of my 2408mk3 to the front of a rack but the only patch bay I have is 1/4 inch on the front and RCA on the back.
Can I use just regular mono 1/4 to RCA for this?

[buzzsmith]

This is still a work in progress for me.
I have a cabling question.
I want to bring the inputs of my 2408mk3 to the front of a rack but the only patch bay I have is 1/4 inch on the front and RCA on the back.
Can I use just regular mono 1/4 to RCA for this?

I don't "know" so, but I "believe" so, Wylie.

I used to do this in reverse with the original 2408 because it was RCA in and out and I just used a snake with RCAs on one end and 1/4 inch on the other.

I'm starting to activate my formerly unused patch bay, too, but mine is 1/4 inch everywhere.

Hope that helps a bit...

Buzzy

[KEVORKIAN]

I have a ULN-8 and a Mobile IO+DSP. The ULN-8 sounds AWESOME! I listen to that. The Mobile IO is great because I can route the SPDIF of my Mbox 2 to the Mobile IO, and then send that to the ULN-8, so I can monitor ProTools through my ULN-8. That works great. ProTools sounds completely clean via the spdif, as opposed to using those cheap nasty analog outs.

I have a ULN-8 as well and it's been a revelation. Metric Halo has a great compromise for summing ITB with the MIO mixer. I send my submixed stems to the MIO mixer and sum them there and the difference is huge IMO. The stereo image is bigger and the mixes are punchier. Plus I can apply MH's Character plugins to the stems.

Any of the newer MH interfaces will do this so you don't need a ULN-8 to get this type of summing happening and it's all in the box.

Interestingly, this is a similar workflow to what people are doing with the Harrison Mixbuss and Ardour, however there is no messing with Jack or any other routing schemes so it's much cleaner and more obvious.

Like David said a few posts ago, if you are using a mixer otb then it would need to be something that imparts some real quality (like an SSL) to make it worth it, IMO.

[wylie1]

This is still a work in progress for me.
I have a cabling question.
I want to bring the inputs of my 2408mk3 to the front of a rack but the only patch bay I have is 1/4 inch on the front and RCA on the back.
Can I use just regular mono 1/4 to RCA for this?

I don't "know" so, but I "believe" so, Wylie.

I used to do this in reverse with the original 2408 because it was RCA in and out and I just used a snake with RCAs on one end and 1/4 inch on the other.

I'm starting to activate my formerly unused patch bay, too, but mine is 1/4 inch everywhere.

Hope that helps a bit...

Buzzy

Thanx Buzzy: I may be asking for some help once I start trying to get everything online.
I'm getting pretty excited about it.
I got a sweet deal from Sweetwater on everything I need I should see it all today, they beat every price I could fine here plus shipped it for free.
I'm almost afraid to see whats lurking behind my desk.

[Pappy725]

I'm almost afraid to see whats lurking behind my desk.

Yeah, buddy! I moved my studio into another room of the house and WHOA!, there was some crap back there where the desk sat for 8?,10? years....

Now it's all sunshine and light.

Good luck with the new setup!
Pappy

[wylie1]

Thanx.
Between my desk and board there's a mess of cables I'll be glad to get it all cleaned up.