Anyone remember upgrading to Leopard from Tiger?

[wolfetho]

I'm planning on doing this and wondering if
Leopard uses much more RAM than Tiger? I can't use Snow Leopard
on my G5 PPC.

I'm using DP 7.02 with a G5 PPC 2.0 dual core w/
4.5 GB of RAM.

Thanks,

Tom

[Frodo]

Generally speaking, you should have no problem. Leopard is a tad snappier, but Leopard can be quirky. Apple was caught between its decision to limit SL to Intel, but many users feel that SL is what Leo was supposed to be.

I find that some things like Apple Mail get stuck in Leopard at times, but do fine on restart. Other than that, I wouldn't use an earlier version of DP than 5.13. I would also quadruple check for third-party plugin and VI compatibility. For the most part, you should be fine by now. Most third-parties are caught up to Leopard.

[James Steele]

I'm planning on doing this and wondering if
Leopard uses much more RAM than Tiger? I can't use Snow Leopard
on my G5 PPC.

I'm using DP 7.02 with a G5 PPC 2.0 dual core w/
4.5 GB of RAM.

Thanks,

Tom

What sort of plug-ins do you own? Native Instruments FM7 and KontaktPlayer2 will cease working. Also the Classic environment is gone with Leopard, so if you have any System 9 apps you want to run, you can't. Other older NI VIs might get dodgy.

[wolfetho]

Thanks guys for the replies.
I never used the classic mode anyway with Tiger as my Mac wasn't capable of
booting up in OS9.

As far as plug-ins go, I'm using Kontakt 3, Vienna Instruments, Stylus RMX,
and Trillian. I also have the UAD-1 and Altiverb, with a few waves plug-ins.

[James Steele]

Then sounds like you'll be good to go!

[toodamnhip]

Does anyone think DP 7 running terribly slow on my Quad G5, 10.4.11 is due to not upgrading to leapord?

I have had to go back to 5.13 due to 7.01 being too slow.

[Shooshie]

Does anyone think DP 7 running terribly slow on my Quad G5, 10.4.11 is due to not upgrading to leapord?

I have had to go back to 5.13 due to 7.01 being too slow.

I have absolutely no idea. Do you have a hard drive on which you could load Leopard and DP7, to see if it makes a difference? Or for that matter, even load your current system on it, but fresh from the disk (and updates) just to see if there is something in your system that is slowing you down?

Back in the 1990s I was often called by various studios and universities to get their DP systems running again. In every single case, there were unauthorized people who had access to the computers, and they'd been downloading apps from the net, or installing them from wherever they would get them back then, and the system would be filled up with talking mooses, eyes that followed every move you made, modded system graphics, "KaBoom!", and all kinds of other things that invariably were always running as extensions or Control Panels... there were all sorts of things you could do to a Mac back then, and without having multi-threaded, paged memory, they got crazy with each other, and even crazier when DP would be running. Then there were memory issues: in DP you had to remember not to give it all your RAM in its partition. Audio was considered "outside" the app, so if you were running a lot of audio tracks, you actually had to give LESS RAM to DP and let the "unused" RAM run the music files. That often led to crashes when people misunderstood and tried to get DP to use all their RAM. And when I finished removing all that stuff and setting everything up correctly, their old shabby DP that crashed so badly and ran so slowly suddenly ran perfectly, fast, and reliably. They would thank me and act like I was a genius. How could I tell them they were just morons for letting their staff or students DO that? But that was the old MacOS.

In OSX things aren't so clear and simple. We still have an extensions folder, but with luck we don't put anything in it that doesn't really belong there. Your audio drivers, for example, are System Extensions. Or to be more accurate, Kernel Extensions. (.kext) But it's always possible that you've installed a plugin that thinks it deserves more CPU time than the rest of DP gets on its own, and perhaps it's left its bits in the extensions files, or somewhere else. It doesn't seem likely, but then you're reporting something that seems very unusual. And no, I don't think you're a moron for letting things happen (if that's the case) to your system, but the truth is we don't always know what those installers are doing. We don't always know what's incompatible behind the scenes.

I'd suggest that it might be an Intel/PPC thing, but too many people are running DP7 on G5's (at least one person gets a lot of work done here on a G4 iMac, I think) and most of them have reported that DP7 runs just great. You might scan the forum for such posts and see what OS they are usually using.

But one thing is for sure: DP7 has been running great. Your experience is not normal. I know that's not good news, but at some point you're going to have to figure this out. I'd start with a bootable hard disk right now, and install a fresh version of DP7, audio drivers, MIDI drivers, CueMix, Clockworks, and so forth. (I guess all that stuff gets installed together) First, load only the plugins you completely trust not to be the problem. Then add groups of plugins afterward, and see if DP slows down after installing any of them.

I do hope you get to the bottom of this. I don't like seeing you unhappy about DP, of course, but MOSTLY I just think you'd really rock in DP7. I just think you'd find it to be much closer to what you want DP to be. But, if you're stuck in DP 5.13 and Tiger the rest of your life, I guess you could do worse.

Shooshie

[toodamnhip]

Thanks bro...

[spirit]

A safe idea is to make a partition on a different drive than your current drive to be the startup drive for leopard so that if leopard is problematic you still can boot off your unmodified current drive.

Upgrading to leopard will probably require new authorizations (kontakt). In the unlikely event you use DAE mode NI plugs of the Kontakt 3 generation are reported to be problematice with Leopard, though Kontakt 3.5 supposedly sorted this out. This may be an example of some other problems you might encounter even if you don't use DAE.
Probably a good idea to avoid upgrading OS just because there is a newer OS unless there is a definite feature or compatibility requirement that warrants the possibilities of a lot of lost time- though many have done it successfully some have had to roll back which is not always easy.

Don't think that DP7 neccessarily runs slower on 10.4 than 10.5 (in limited use here DP7 doesn't seem slow here on 10.4.9/G5-but only small sessions so far). More likely you have another problem. Try trashing preferences and rebuilding them? Have the same buffer settings and pre-render settings on dp7 as you have on 5.

[toodamnhip]

A safe idea is to make a partition on a different drive than your current drive to be the startup drive for leopard so that if leopard is problematic you still can boot off your unmodified current drive.

Upgrading to leopard will probably require new authorizations (kontakt). In the unlikely event you use DAE mode NI plugs of the Kontakt 3 generation are reported to be problematice with Leopard, though Kontakt 3.5 supposedly sorted this out. This may be an example of some other problems you might encounter even if you don't use DAE.
Probably a good idea to avoid upgrading OS just because there is a newer OS unless there is a definite feature or compatibility requirement that warrants the possibilities of a lot of lost time- though many have done it successfully some have had to roll back which is not always easy.

Don't think that DP7 neccessarily runs slower on 10.4 than 10.5 (in limited use here DP7 doesn't seem slow here on 10.4.9/G5-but only small sessions so far). More likely you have another problem. Try trashing preferences and rebuilding them? Have the same buffer settings and pre-render settings on dp7 as you have on 5.

I've tried various pref trashing and other things given me by tech support. The program is just slow..

You know, it is indeed a catch 22.

I am too busy for the down time. I know that if I just trashed and re-built my whole system drive, it would probably run right.
Especially if I spent "FOREVER" adding one plug at a time back upon rebuilding.

I even have my drive cloned. But the nightmare of re-authorizing, finding out for weeks that this or that program now doesn;t work...I can't deal man..lol

[James Steele]

Well, when you say "slow" what types of projects are you typically running? How many tracks, VIs, sample rate, etc? Because it's working pretty good for me. Honestly, MOTU at some point would find it worthwhile to fly someone to your studio and fix the problem, since for however many people have it working okay, there are a few people who have problems who then post about it being too slow on forums like this and that's all anybody remembers.

[James Steele]

I am too busy for the down time. I know that if I just trashed and re-built my whole system drive, it would probably run right.
Especially if I spent "FOREVER" adding one plug at a time back upon rebuilding.

I even have my drive cloned. But the nightmare of re-authorizing, finding out for weeks that this or that program now doesn;t work...I can't deal man..lol

Okay so you acknowledge that there is a "fix," you just don't want to do it. I can understand. But unless you can say that whatever system corruption is going on is the fault of MOTU and not something else on your computer, maybe continuing to post about "how slow" DP is isn't exactly fair? It's sort of like you have Ford F150 with fouled spark plugs and the engine is missing. You don't want to fix it or pay a mechanic, so instead you post to a Ford forum about how (all) F150s run poorly. If my analogy is wrong, you'll forgive me. Hopefully.

[Shooshie]

I've tried various pref trashing and other things given me by tech support. The program is just slow..

The heck it is. I think the more accurate way of saying it is that your "system is just slow." The program is just getting caught in the middle between your desire to use it vs. your desire not to have to troubleshoot what has apparently gone wrong with your system. You can't tell me that this many people are grossly mistaken about the speed of DP7.

You said something about "manly mixes," so I pulled out some stuff that would not even RUN on my old computer (though ironically it ran on a computer 1/5th its power back in OS9), and it runs on my Quad Intel Mac Pro in Snow Leopard without even moving the CPU meter. It's glorious to watch all those faders and pans working together smoothly and in perfect sync with the music. Couldn't do that back in OS9. These files were too much for it.

Maybe your mixes are just too manly. [say, did you know that the CEO of the Manley Audio company is a woman? And she knows everything there is to know about audio!] Well, kindly do all us "girly men" a favor and quit telling us that our app runs slowly, when we can all attest that it's running circles around YOUR app. Do you have any idea how many people chose not to upgrade to DP 6 because of reading all the abject bullsh*t in this forum about how terrible it was? Some of them STILL won't upgrade, and they didn't even try it themselves. DP 6.0 definitely had some problems, but they fixed most of those in DP 6.01, and even more in 6.02, and oddly, Snow Leopard fixed pretty much everything else.

DP7 was the most stable "version X.0" release in the 22 + years that I've been using DP and its daddy, Performer. It runs fast. What more can I tell you?

Shooshie

[KEVORKIAN]

DP7 was the most stable "version X.0" release in the 22 + years that I've been using DP and its daddy, Performer. It runs fast. What more can I tell you?

Shooshie

I agree 100% Shooshie...

To toodamnhip...

When I upgraded to DP7 and SL I ran into a show stopping roadblock, where DP7 would crash on launch under all circumstances. A completely outrageous problem.

I spent a week troubleshooting that installation, but (!) because I also backed up my previous Leopard installation, I was able to keep working all the while. If you clone the drive, the only thing that will need to be re-authotized is likely to be DP and that takes 5 minutes.

In any case I eventually had to reinstall SL onto a drive and all my apps from scratch (in my downtime) and since then I have had rock-solid performance from my system. So what I'm saying is that you gotta put the time in if you want to fix the problem.

Now... I could have blamed Motu for my problem, and I could certainly blame Apple, but there is no evidence that this issue was larger than something endemic to my system. That said, you also need to take into account that you are looking for prime performance from a four year old computer so your mileage is bound to vary...

[toodamnhip]

I MUSI CLARIFY..AND APOLOGIZE...

I MEANT "JUST SLOW ON MY SYSTEM...."

I didnt mean to mis-lead ANYONE that DP7 was "slow" as a program..

I know it is my particular set of problems, and, I know it is my fault for being too busy to re-build my own system...

To be fair to me though, it really is a pain in the ass for professionals to be confronted with the need to re-build their whole system drives..

It is a lot of potential trouble to do that just cuz a program like DP upgrades..

but, this is the nature of the beast so, ok, there it is..when I have more time, I will indeed deal with this..but I don;t think DP 7 is slow...AS A PROGRAM>

I may have other grips such as it taking yrs for MOTU to get crossfades right, and I still think DP 7 is a computer Hog..(it's just that on an 8 core, there is so much headroom, it's hard to notice).. etc...but my particular slow working version of DP...this one probably falls on me...
So, if you re read my post, you can hopefully see how I could have meant "just slow"...

as in "the result I obtained on my system"..not a sweeping statement..

sorry to ruffle feathers..sometimes I type fast in here between mixes and may not be as eloquent as I should be...my bad...