DP7 with Ableton Live for composition?

[monstrejumo]

Hi,

really new too this forums (only 2-3 posts some times ago about hardware questions), and I browsed a lot here since 2 weeks.

I'm a happy owner of an ultralite (mk2), so do I own audiodesk 2. I can upgrade to DP7 for only 275 euros at DV247.com, so the price is really interesting for me, even more than logic pro

I'm using ableton live 6 for composition, mixing and live shows since 3 years now. Quite happy with it, but I begin to feel the need of something, well, more... less...

ok, I go:

I'm thinking of getting DP7, and rewire live "into" it, so as to be able to use live as a (powerful) "sketchpad" for quickly set the basics for a song, then beeing able to import (real-time or bounced) this sketch into DP7 so as to get the song done with more accurate details and precision (great MIDI CC and audio automations, mixing FXs, EQs & console, availability to have several different mixes to A/B, and so on.).

I just bought the book digital performer 6 power! so as to understand the "mentality" of DP, while I know that ableton live is really different.


I don't use any VI, since I got hardware synths routed to the ultralite.

If I write some MIDI sequences in live, is it easy to get them in DP7 so as to better automate them?

well,

I'm sure you'll tell me I'm not really clear, because yes, I'm not really clear about what I'd like to setup,

but if anyone here is used to work with DP+Live, I'd be really interested to know how he works, what is good with this couple or what is not so good...


since there is no demo of DP, I must be sure before going $$$ (I'm only hobbyist without large funds )

BTW, I compose electronic music, and sometimes more industrial stuff (means I only record a few things, no multitracking).

Cheers

[thracks]

I do exactly what you are describing, but I've not upgraded to DP 7 yet. Live will ReWire into DP seamlessly, and since you are not running any AU's or softsysnths in Live you'll be in great shape since you can only use Live's built in devices in rewire mode. I compose completely in Live these days. I then bounce the multi track audio out and import it into DP for final tweaking/mixing/mastering. It works like a charm!

[monstrejumo]

cool to hear that

I've got a couple of questions:

-since you bounce your live tracks, you don't really need any rewire link, so why do you rewire the 2 apps? (perhap's do you do a kinda "progressive bounce & import", only when live's tracks are definitively ok, then having still other tracks (unfinished) rewired to DP?)

- can you rewire MIDI channels? I'd like to compose my MIDI sequences in live, but beeing able to further edit them with DP's great MIDI edition tools (mostly CC automation tools)... or shall I first export live's MIDI clips as .mid files so as to be able to import them in DP?

anyway I guess I'll be fixed when I'll have DP (gotta wait after christmas )

thanks mate

M-J

[Macrozonaris]

Hey man,

I also use DP 7 and Live 8. But not together. Live doesn't export MIDI like DP7 (only individual tracks at a time), but vice versa works really well.

I actually use DP 7 for MIDI and if I have to do something electronic or just with audio, I use Live because it is so much faster to use, and I love the plugins. The problem with Live and MIDI is of course the lack of any sort of curves in automation. And having a large template is not good with Live.

[monstrejumo]

would it be possible to real-time record MIDI coming from live into DP? (via rewire, or other stuff)

if not, isn't it possible to save live MIDI clips (i.e, on the desktop) and then import them into DP?

I'll investigate this furthermore...

Indeed Live is really fast at doing simple audio manipulation, and writing song sketches in it is also really fast.

For me DP would be the last "touch" to finish songs, and add really precise and rich MIDI and audio automations...

Thanks for your feedback mates!
cheers

[grouse]

would it be possible to real-time record MIDI coming from live into DP? (via rewire, or other stuff)

if not, isn't it possible to save live MIDI clips (i.e, on the desktop) and then import them into DP?

It's possible to do both of those things.
Live's devices don't seem to show up in DP like the Reason one's do. So if you want to integrate the two programs, I believe you have 2 choices:
1) Use Rewire and record audio out of Live into DP or 2) export your MIDI clips from Live (this is very easy to do) and import them in to DP.
Both work well in my experience.

[thracks]

cool to hear that

I've got a couple of questions:

-since you bounce your live tracks, you don't really need any rewire link, so why do you rewire the 2 apps? (perhap's do you do a kinda "progressive bounce & import", only when live's tracks are definitively ok, then having still other tracks (unfinished) rewired to DP?)

- can you rewire MIDI channels? I'd like to compose my MIDI sequences in live, but beeing able to further edit them with DP's great MIDI edition tools (mostly CC automation tools)... or shall I first export live's MIDI clips as .mid files so as to be able to import them in DP?

anyway I guess I'll be fixed when I'll have DP (gotta wait after christmas )

thanks mate

M-J

Right. I don't Rewire, but it does work if you wish. Not sure about exporting MIDI, I've never tried. I basically finish up in Live to a certain point, then move to DP. I don't do extensive MIDI editing. I find Live usable enough for my needs, but for deep MIDI work DP tops everything out there.

[Shooshie]

Ok, we've got some saying that Live doesn't export MIDI, and others saying it does. Which is it? Can someone say absolutely that Live exports a Standard MIDI File that DP can import?

Personally, I'd use DP for MIDI, but that's just my opinion.

[Macrozonaris]

In Live you can option-click on a single MIDI track and export it. But you can't export an entire project (lets say 40 MIDI tracks) at once, like in DP (save as.. --> MIDI). So you have to export all the tracks one by one.

[Shooshie]

In Live you can option-click on a single MIDI track and export it. But you can't export an entire project (lets say 40 MIDI tracks) at once, like in DP (save as.. --> MIDI). So you have to export all the tracks one by one.

Well, I sort of got that when you said it earlier, but what I'm wondering is:

It's possible to do both of those things.
Live's devices don't seem to show up in DP like the Reason one's do. So if you want to integrate the two programs, I believe you have 2 choices:
1) Use Rewire and record audio out of Live into DP or 2) export your MIDI clips from Live (this is very easy to do) and import them in to DP.
Both work well in my experience.

Grouse, do you know a method of exporting something like a Standard MIDI File? Or are you just saying it's easy to do it one-track-at-a-time?

Shoosh

[Macrozonaris]

Grouse, do you know a method of exporting something like a Standard MIDI File? Or are you just saying it's easy to do it one-track-at-a-time?
Shoosh

I just answered to this question. It is not possible.

[Shooshie]

Grouse, do you know a method of exporting something like a Standard MIDI File? Or are you just saying it's easy to do it one-track-at-a-time?
Shoosh

I just answered to this question. It is not possible.

Thank you. I'll tell Grouse.

Grouse? It's not possible.



Shoosh

[grouse]

Thanks Shoosh, I did not know that!
I'm still working in Live 5 and now that they're up to 8, I am certainly no authority on the subject.
I was referring to clips (MIDI or audio soundbites) which are very easy and handy to export.
One thing I would say to the OP is that once you have DP you may end up using Live less and less.
Live is great for trying out completely new arrangements in real time without affecting the original and also if you use loops playing in a live situation it's fantastic but for production I'd say DP is a lot deeper.

[monstrejumo]

Well thanks to all of you for this interesting replies and interest.

One thing I would say to the OP is that once you have DP you may end up using Live less and less.
Live is great for trying out completely new arrangements in real time without affecting the original and also if you use loops playing in a live situation it's fantastic but for production I'd say DP is a lot deeper.

I hope so. I LOVE live for, well, LIVE shows.
I love live also for composition, but it lacks features for my needs, particularly in the MIDI sync and edition domain and for the "global mixdown" process (multiple automations view by track, dual screen ability...). The fact is that I'm really fast now for laying down the basics of a song (theme, bassline, drums parts...), and I'm sure I'll keep on using live as a "sketchpad", well for the first months I guess.


MIDI export with live : I'll try this weekend, but I'm pretty sure live is able to export standard MIDI files, as it can export single MIDI clips. (but some of you seem to be sure .mid files are impossible to create with live, maybe I'm wrong with that). If .mid are not doable, that would not be a problem to me, as my songs are not too complex (max 3 MIDI tracks, for my 3 hardware synths, the other MIDI tracks controlling live drum and sample player devices, that would be exported only as audio, via bounce or rewire to DP)

A Live MIDI clip can be a single bar MIDI loop as it can be a one-hour-long sequence, related to 1 MIDI channel. a song global sequence could be either a .mid file, or multiple single MIDI "clips"... but I never tried exporting MIDI for now so I'm not able to precise things right now.

I know my present post isn't really useful for the debate

I'll be back with precise answers in one or two days.

Thanks again

Cheers

[grouse]

Well thanks to all of you for this interesting replies and interest.

One thing I would say to the OP is that once you have DP you may end up using Live less and less.
Live is great for trying out completely new arrangements in real time without affecting the original and also if you use loops playing in a live situation it's fantastic but for production I'd say DP is a lot deeper.

I hope so. I LOVE live for, well, LIVE shows.
I love live also for composition, but it lacks features for my needs, particularly in the MIDI sync and edition domain and for the "global mixdown" process (multiple automations view by track, dual screen ability...). The fact is that I'm really fast now for laying down the basics of a song (theme, bassline, drums parts...), and I'm sure I'll keep on using live as a "sketchpad", well for the first months I guess.


MIDI export with live : I'll try this weekend, but I'm pretty sure live is able to export standard MIDI files, as it can export single MIDI clips. (but some of you seem to be sure .mid files are impossible to create with live, maybe I'm wrong with that). If .mid are not doable, that would not be a problem to me, as my songs are not too complex (max 3 MIDI tracks, for my 3 hardware synths, the other MIDI tracks controlling live drum and sample player devices, that would be exported only as audio, via bounce or rewire to DP)

A Live MIDI clip can be a single bar MIDI loop as it can be a one-hour-long sequence, related to 1 MIDI channel. a song global sequence could be either a .mid file, or multiple single MIDI "clips"... but I never tried exporting MIDI for now so I'm not able to precise things right now.

I know my present post isn't really useful for the debate

I'll be back with precise answers in one or two days.

Thanks again

Cheers

There's a difference between a standard MIDI file and a MIDI file. A standard MIDI file can have multiple tracks with program changes etc. and it can be quite advanced. It means you can move a whole multi track MIDI composition from computer to computer or DAW to DAW.
A MIDI file is single piece of MIDI information.
Live can export MIDI files but not standard MIDI files. DP can do both.
I don't think this will affect your situation though. You can export all your MIDI clips and Rewiring Live in to DP works very well too.