Issues w/3.6.8.x drivers and XP Pro/Ableton Live/OS

[metalmike]

Hi,

I recently picked up my buddies Motu 828mkII as he's looking at getting something newer. I have a dual boot XP Pro SP3 and Vista Ultimate 64 setup on this system. I connected via FW400 for the time being. Trying to use latest driver (1414) was nothing but a pain/useless. Found 1410, ran into same results, wonky Live, error code 25 during initialization, unable to get it to a usable state. I switched over to Vista 64 with the 64 bit 1414 driver and it went a lot less painfully and actually seemed to work a whole lot better.

My system is a home-built Gigabyte mobo w/E6850 oc'd to 3.6Ghz running with 4Gb DDR2 memory (Vista sees it all, XP sees 3.5Gb and had NO issues with older audio PCI card). I have a Dynex FW card I got at bestbuy, no complaints in device manager, etc...it all points to the FW drivers for the motu at this point.

And reason I will say that is I found older 3.5.x.x drivers which appear to offer less options within their control panels for one as well as within Live's preferences for audio configuration. BUT they work which is what I was mainly concerned with. I believe I moved up to 3.6.7.x as of today (found them via this forum) and they also work ok compared to the 3.5.x.x drivers. So what is going on with the 3.6.8.x drivers people? I can't believe how messed up they are under XP Pro compared to Vista 64 bit. I assume others are also having issues from what I've been reading although possibly not quite related.

So, anyone have any word from Motu about thess problems and XP Pro SPx?

Mike

[metalmike]

The FW card is a Dynex dual 800/single 400 with the Agere/Lucent chipset on it and connected via the 400 port till I get an 800 speed cable. Noone is having issues with XP Pro SP3 (gigabyte mobo, no FW onboard)?

Any suggestions?

Mike

[metalmike]

So a month goes by and absolutely NOONE has any response to my question?

[mcoyles]

MOTU don't have official representation here or an obligation to do so... the forum is run voluntarily by a user of their equipment, who also happens to provide the majority of their (useful) unofficial support via this site. If you want their stance, you'd have to ask them via their official support channels. No-one here will speak up on their behalf - which is what you asked for - hence no response *shrug*.

Personally, had no issues with 3.6.8 drivers and MOTU 8PRE or 896 using Ableton or Cubase... altho did require firmware updates to get the units to support the features of the latest drivers, which wouldn't install correctly until this was done. The necessity to do this was highlighted in the readme's.

Also, tradition is to eliminate any possibilty of system specifics interfering. Is your overclock Prime stable for 24hrs straight no errors? Unless you reset to stock settings and post, no-one can say for sure that your errors aren't due to data corruption due to slightly low voltage to CPU core, or memory timings too tight etc... so reset everything to stock, try again, and then repost. Possibly more luck as people won't be questioning your overclocking skills as they've been eliminated from the equation. For sure, there's no need to OC an E6850 for use with Ableton unless you're using a RIDICULOUSLY high number of channels etc. A stock E6850 should be able to handle anything you can throw at it really, and so should 2Gb of ram (I run it fine with 32 channel files on a 1.8Ghz Core2Duo laptop that's 3 years old, and 1gb ram), so that's irrelevant to the issue at hand also.

MOTU FAQs etc all state if you want to rule out issues, basically get a TexasInstruments based PCI card as all others can potentially be an ass pain... and there are a barrel of issues for Windows XP (even SP3) due to a dodgy firewire stack that hasn't worked properly since SP1 days, so you need to state that you've tried that fix (well documented on the forums also) before people will go out of their way to help with the issue, as if you haven't already tried that then it shows you've done no research into existing issues with Windows XP and just expected it to work properly. MOTU hardware never does, and the majority here are fully aware of that.

Long n' short, what you're asking, along with the details of what you've already tried are lacking. You appear to be saying "I have this n' this and expect it to work with all drivers released for it but it doesn't... why not" and this entire forum is dedicated to that exact question, but you need to show you've attempted to narrow down the issue for yourself using info that is already available before folks here will dive in to assist, as the users here have no obligation to go back over old turf that's already covered if you hit the search button...

Lose the overclock. Start with this thread, then try a TexasInstruments chipset Firewire card... if still not getting anywhere, then repost.

(and apologies if I come across as harsh... I'm drunk at the moment)

[metalmike]

MOTU don't have official representation here or an obligation to do so... the forum is run voluntarily by a user of their equipment, who also happens to provide the majority of their (useful) unofficial support via this site. If you want their stance, you'd have to ask them via their official support channels. No-one here will speak up on their behalf - which is what you asked for - hence no response *shrug*.

Personally, had no issues with 3.6.8 drivers and MOTU 8PRE or 896 using Ableton or Cubase... altho did require firmware updates to get the units to support the features of the latest drivers, which wouldn't install correctly until this was done. The necessity to do this was highlighted in the readme's.

Also, tradition is to eliminate any possibilty of system specifics interfering. Is your overclock Prime stable for 24hrs straight no errors? Unless you reset to stock settings and post, no-one can say for sure that your errors aren't due to data corruption due to slightly low voltage to CPU core, or memory timings too tight etc... so reset everything to stock, try again, and then repost. Possibly more luck as people won't be questioning your overclocking skills as they've been eliminated from the equation. For sure, there's no need to OC an E6850 for use with Ableton unless you're using a RIDICULOUSLY high number of channels etc. A stock E6850 should be able to handle anything you can throw at it really, and so should 2Gb of ram (I run it fine with 32 channel files on a 1.8Ghz Core2Duo laptop that's 3 years old, and 1gb ram), so that's irrelevant to the issue at hand also.

MOTU FAQs etc all state if you want to rule out issues, basically get a TexasInstruments based PCI card as all others can potentially be an ass pain... and there are a barrel of issues for Windows XP (even SP3) due to a dodgy firewire stack that hasn't worked properly since SP1 days, so you need to state that you've tried that fix (well documented on the forums also) before people will go out of their way to help with the issue, as if you haven't already tried that then it shows you've done no research into existing issues with Windows XP and just expected it to work properly. MOTU hardware never does, and the majority here are fully aware of that.

Long n' short, what you're asking, along with the details of what you've already tried are lacking. You appear to be saying "I have this n' this and expect it to work with all drivers released for it but it doesn't... why not" and this entire forum is dedicated to that exact question, but you need to show you've attempted to narrow down the issue for yourself using info that is already available before folks here will dive in to assist, as the users here have no obligation to go back over old turf that's already covered if you hit the search button...

Lose the overclock. Start with this thread, then try a TexasInstruments chipset Firewire card... if still not getting anywhere, then repost.

(and apologies if I come across as harsh... I'm drunk at the moment)

Question is why is Vista 64 Ultimate working fine with the drivers for 64 bit while XP Pro SP3 isn't with 32 bit drivers? I had little to no issue with Vista installing the latest drivers to it. When I went to the 32 bit (first obviously as that's the Boot OS) it got all wonky, sluggish, crap for sound (system sounds, overall in general). I tried the earlier 1410 version, and I believe one prior to that with same issues. I go down to 3.5.x.x and it works fine but lacking a lot of options in the menus for motu stuff. I found a slightly newer version that has same options and appears to work ok. I don't have access to a TI card at this time and not sure what vendor has them to purchase at bestbuy or newegg at this point as well. My system was overclocked some time ago before going to Motu and had zero issues with M-Audio PCI card. This one is PCI-e but as stated above, Vista 64 runs fine with latest drivers. I may drop the OC back to stock but I went thru all the usual OC steps when I was bring it up to 3.6Ghz. I don't have a problem resetting it (should I choose to). But I don't think that is the issue if Vista works and XP doesn't.

I would expect similar behaviour from it. I am also not an OC guru, I talked with people/perused the forum before I started in on it. It does not run 24x7, it is my DAW system. My other one was @ 3.6Ghz as well (E8400) but I reset it back to stock after some reading up after the chip had been out a bit. I don't run the MOTU on it at this point as input from the mobo. I was (and am still) contemplating it but not planned any time soon for now.

And I basically asked if *anyone* was having issues with XP Pro SP3 with the Motu 828mkII in general to see if I found other threads to read up on, no response to that. My buddy (whom I got this from) was here when we went thru the initial install, he wasn't sure what was going on and he's had this on his PC for awhile. Hardware appears fine (especially since it works ok in Vista) so that doesn't seem to be the issue. I feel it's something in the driver, or perhaps the PCI-e FW card but won't know till I can get my hands on one to replace it with and see if things work out. If they do, I'll get one of my own and use it. I need to check w/my buddy as his *may* have the TI chipset.

[edit] I will get my OC settings written down and drop the OC on it and attempt to install latest driver after uninstalling current one (and I should probably scrub the registry as well after rebooting and prior to latest driver update) but not holding a lot of faith in it working. If it does, great, if not I will look at a card with TI chipset (an SiiG from newegg FW 400 supporting XP 32/64 and Vista 32/64) and deal with Vista discovering new card as needed as I don't run it too often lol). And go from there. We'll see but I doubt the OC will make any difference at this time. Could be card, still suspect driver for XP 32 bit. No other issues with this system for a long time.

Mike

[metalmike]

Well resetting back to stock made no difference with the latest drivers (1414 or 1410) so I am back down to 3.6.x.x which has less features but is working on my system. I should reboot to Vista to make sure all is still well with the resetting of clock speed but feel it should be fine with the latest drivers.

Waiting on a different PCI-e Firewire card when my buddy can get to it and let me test it out. If that works I'll be surprised. I have no other issues on the system with anything else. All is well other than this driver issue/FW issue.

Mike

[metalmike]

Well no card from my buddy yet. Any recommendations for one with the TI chipset that works with XP Pro 32-bit AND Vista 64-bit ultimate? I don't care if it is PCI or PCI-e slot. I see at newegg.com the Syba card has the TI Chipset.

Thanks,

Mike

[metalmike]

So noone has suggestions for a card with the TI chipset? The one I have has the Agere/Lucent chipset I believe (Dynex 3 port 2x800, 1x400 which is the one I am plugged into)?

[metalmike]

So I tried the latest driver and get the same results. The install went fine (as usual) but when I try and load up the Motu CueMix Console it tells me that the device is on a bus at an unsupported speed or something along those lines. I believe this was the same issue with the previous drivers (1414).

I am plugged into the FW400 port only on the back of the Motu and on the Dynex FW card (1x400, 2x800) and I believe it is the Lucent/Agere chipset. Noone has bothered suggesting something that has the TI chipset and I haven't gotten a card from my buddy whom I bought this from (not sure if he got it from his parents house or not still). So any suggestions on the FW Card? Dual port would suffice, has to be 400 on one of them.

Thanks,

Mike

[metalmike]

Well after some poking around here I found some other threads that pointed to the AVT Firewire driver that folks installed and used its tool to switch from the MS FW driver to the AVT FW driver and I rebooted. I then installed the latest MOTU drivers (3.7.x.x) and rebooted and now I can get CueMix up fine and working with the OS as well as with Ableton Live 8.1.1 so it appears there is definitely an issue with MS's FW drivers in SP3 still per the other thread(s). So some minor tweaking on the MOTU and CueMix and I should be golden, no need for a new FW card (and seeing there weren't any suggestions this works out best for me) as things seem to be working as I want them to.

I suggest anyone having issues with the MOTU 828Mk II and CueMix (device on bus...error message loading CueMix or SMPTE console) to look into the AVT FW driver for XP SP3 and I think also covers Vista 32 bit. Search forum for AVT and you should find the thread.

Mike