Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

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The forum for petitions, theoretical discussion, gripes, or other matters outside deemed outside the scope of helping users make optimal use of MOTU hardware and software. Posts in other forums may be moved here at the moderators discretion. No politics or religion!!
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buddhabelly
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by buddhabelly »

Sooshie, it would be great if you'd share! ;) My MIDI performances have not been that demanding, as I've mostly recorded sounds or use track automation and drawing for manipulating the parameters of VIs. Anywho.

Sorry for the off topic James, but I've been using Logic and DP (less than Logic) for quite some time. I'm in the midst of probably switching over to DP full time solely for the post/scoring features. Direct comparisons like this help people like me that are moving around. Even if my examples are elementary. ;) And my question about an equivalent feature in DP has been answered apparently by no answer. Which is the information I was looking for. Thanks again all.
Shooshie wrote:
buddhabelly wrote:Then there is something I don't understand about what you're asking. Editing velocities in DP seems the same to me except for the added tools for drawing, like the parabolas, random ramps etc. I think Logic's transform window is they're answer for that, but it's not as direct as just drawing the shape.

Guess I'm not that advanced of a user for either since I don't get it. Oh well, I still get what I need done I guess. :?

Yes, our needs are different, and I think that's the problem with people making comparisons about their favorite DAWs. In the end, what matters is whether you get your work done without a lot of interruptions and troubleshooting. I have trouble making die-hard Logic fans understand my need for detailed velocity and controller shaping. Maybe it would help if I posted screenshots of what I do, and then it might make more sense.

Put simply: DP's capabilities in this regard put the competition to shame. Those who do not work at this level of detail don't see the difference, but it's night/day. I'm creating performances that ideally simulate actual players on real instruments: their breathing, their lip movements, their hand movements, the swing of a bowing arm. These are not simple adjustments or straight-line moves, though you can get away with a few lesser-detailed moves if they're surrounded by more realistic ones.

DP gives us the tools to record, edit, create and adjust those lines without sacrificing the detail. Though I'm still waiting to see evidence to the contrary, my current conclusion about Logic is that it simply does not make that easy. It can be done, but at a fraction of DP's efficiency.

Shooshie

PS: James, I think this 'Logic tutorial' was valuable, for once again it has confirmed DP's lead in this area. Logic just isn't in the ballpark with DP as regards phrasing large amounts of velocity or continuous data. I will post screenshots of what I do in DP when I get the chance. I have to find some good examples that really illustrate it, and that will only happen while I'm working in DP. At some point I'm going to make a movie of it so that people can see the differences in action. People who do not know the depths of DP do not understand WHY it's better, and comparisons like this one really do give us the opportunity to make that better understood.
Kubi

Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by Kubi »

buddhabelly wrote:Let me try to make it clearer. There is a command to learn a MIDI controller from your keyboard. For my example I'm using the mod wheel. You set this to be the quick automation controller, allowing you to 'perform' the host automation using the mod wheel on your keyboard. It would be great in DP for plugs that don't support MIDI learn for example.

Here is the entry in the logic manual:

Using Automation Quick Access
The Automation Quick Access feature makes track automation extremely fast and simple if you only have one hardware MIDI controller available (one fader on your MIDI keyboard, or maybe just the modulation wheel). You can use this single hardware controller to access (and automate) the currently active automation parameter of the selected track in the Arrange window.
Ah, using host automation driven by an external MIDI controller. Now I get it. Nope, you're right, don't think you can at all. *Maybe* if you use custom consoles, but I'm not sure they can drive host automation either...

And yes, that's a very cool feature indeed. A note with that snip of the logic manual may be a great thing to send to MOTU's feature request address (somewhere on the website.)
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buddhabelly
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by buddhabelly »

Thanks for confirming. BTW, I still listen to the CINEMATIC album pretty frequently. Thanks for that.
newrigel

Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by newrigel »

I just draw in my controller info... not a big deal! But we are talking RECORDING not live performance!
I found that all MIDI CC's are NOT created equal! :mrgreen:
Some are so touchy and others aren't and even when you use scaling features they still are a worthless endeavor... just draw it in as the sequence loops and adjust to taste... DONE!
Creating controller data shouldn't be such a PITA... that's why I love DP! Just draw it in!
Kubi

Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by Kubi »

buddhabelly wrote:Thanks for confirming. BTW, I still listen to the CINEMATIC album pretty frequently. Thanks for that.
Thanks! :D
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amplidood
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by amplidood »

I'm looking forward to using it simply for track building. With it I can use samples/loops without having to load them into an instrument, and keep it all in one place. Brilliant.
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BradLyons
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by BradLyons »

Great---yet another program I have to learn! LOL :lol:
Thank you,
Brad Lyons
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sdfalk
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by sdfalk »

I've beta tested it extensively, and have found nothing game changing about it...
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dougieb
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by dougieb »

James Steele wrote:We'll certainly see? Is there a Record/Reason online forum where I can go and post about how great DP is?
That wasn't the point. It wasn't a "Record is better than DP" post because it clearly isn't better than DP. Record isn't a replacement for DP - AT ALL. It's not even in the same league, however at that price point, it is an evolution I think in the creation of music - like the invention of multitrack recording. What is in that little reason package for under $200 is what would have been $200,000+ only 10 years ago - if it was even available at all.

Hate to use the Beatles in an analogy again since they are so overused, but wow... what could they have done with this?

I guess my reaction to this is the same as when I saw the handheld digital recorder with effects you could put in your pocket for like $200 or something like that. Just amazing!

One thing that is interesting and probably needs attention is Guitar Gaz's observation that programs like this and GarageBand are sucking up all of the new users and those new users may never get to the point that they find out about DP. This is kind of a catch-22... I don't really want MOTU to do a "DP Express" or "DP Lite" because I think that would distract from the main event, however they have to be thinking about the future from a business perspective. Where are the new users going to be? and if there aren't new users, are there enough of us to keep the updates coming?
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Guitar Gaz
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Re: Propellerheads Record is a Game Changer

Post by Guitar Gaz »

dougieb wrote:
One thing that is interesting and probably needs attention is Guitar Gaz's observation that programs like this and GarageBand are sucking up all of the new users and those new users may never get to the point that they find out about DP. This is kind of a catch-22... I don't really want MOTU to do a "DP Express" or "DP Lite" because I think that would distract from the main event, however they have to be thinking about the future from a business perspective. Where are the new users going to be? and if there aren't new users, are there enough of us to keep the updates coming?
DP barely figures in general articles about DAW's now - I think the whole Sound on Sound thing sort of proves this - so its not an obvious "go to" for the new user. Although interestingly the Performing Rights Society magazine (which us members receive) featured DP7 in the latest issue and was praising it. So it still registers to some extent. But the less new users buy DP - well the economics of product development and market share are all too clear if a user base dwindles.

I got into Opcode Vision by starting with a bundled version of EZVision - and then upgrading. There is no shame in having a cut down version of a pro program (Logic and Cubase - even Reason have this). This may be the future for DP - or maybe this is too late. Certainly it needs some vision at the head of Motu to up the market share - lets be honest they ain't that great at PR despite having a top product.
Gary Shepherd
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