DP 6 Pow-Wow and Poll. Is it time for some serious research?

[Shooshie]

(You may change your vote until the closing date, if you desire)
(Every person should click on two answers. One from the first four options, and one from the last two options)

In another thread, Phil O said "Maybe it's time for another Shooshie spreadsheet." I just said, a day or two ago, that I don't want to go through that again. I did that in March-April-May of 2006. It was very difficult to do. I had to badger everyone involved to send me proper information, not paraphrased, but actual answers to the exact questions asked. Paraphrased answers don't fit into a spreadsheet. It felt like I was a pain in the neck. Ultimately, all our efforts were vindicated, because the clear and unambiguous answer emerged: the problem was MIDI driver 1.3.2. If you backdated your driver to version 1.3.1, 90% of the problems ceased. Clear and simple, the statistics proved a fact. I had suspected driver issues, but I didn't know whether it would end up being audio or MIDI. For the majority of people, it was MIDI.

Ok, so as not to waste the time of those who don't need to know the backstory on this, I'm reconsidering the spreadsheet idea. If I am to do it, I'll need the forum's support. If enough people believe that it's worth their time to do a questionnaire, and if the majority of people believe that this could lead to valuable knowledge about our systems, then I'll very SERIOUSLY consider doing it. The spreadsheet I used in 2006 can be recycled, but data entry is still time-consuming.

What it means for you is this: I'd post a questionnaire. You would need to list a lot of your hardware and software, dig for some version numbers, and answer a lot of questions about your setup and the way you work with DP. I'd enter this into the Excel database (already created), then sort it by the various reported problems. If hardware, software, methodology or version numbers then line up in correlation to the problem, we'd have a pattern that could lead to clues to a solution or work-around.

This thread is for determining if our membership as a whole believes that the problems are serious enough to warrant this effort. Remember, for the data to be meaningful, even those who don't have problems would need to do the same questionnaire to give us a control group. It takes the whole village, or most of it. If you tried DP 6.0x and then went back to 5.13, I'd still need for you to remember your problems and do the questionnaire on 6.0x, not 5.13.

Thanks for your time,

Shooshie


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Now, if you want to keep reading this post, below is some back-story on the 2006 spreadsheet and what a new one could mean to us now. The only response I really need, though, is the poll data up above, but feel free to discuss whatever seems relevant after your initial poll response.

As most of you know, there has been a lot of heated debate about DP 6.0x. It's gotten to the point that James has had to step in and moderate on occasion. Believe it or not, the forum was this negative or worse back in March, 2006. The crash/stuck-note stories were everywhere. Everyone was trashing MOTU. People were leaving for Logic in a huff, posting their "last rants" before they left. But in the end, I got a pile of emails and PMs telling me that when people installed my driver (version 1.3.1, which was no longer available on DP's website at that time), their problems stopped. Suddenly DP became great again. Unfortunately, to arrive at that conclusion took a sampling of people's software, plugins, OS, drivers, hardware, and so on. There were over 210 variables. Over 210 columns in that spreadsheet and 55 respondents. Do the math. That's more than 11,550 possible spreadsheet cells. Fortunately, most of those were "either/or" or else they were listing plugins, software, and VI's so it's not like I filled in all 10,000 of them. (and no, there are NOT 200 questions in the questionnaire!)

On the other hand, were I to do a new questionnaire this month, the spreadsheet is already created. I would not have to recreate it, but just copy it, delete the data, and start inserting the answers as people send in their replies. I'd like to think I'd need fewer questions this time, since I've kind of learned where to look, but the answer might be elsewhere, so I'd best be thorough. There are two problems I anticipate to my doing this:

1) MOTU might release the solution tomorrow or next week, making all that hard work irrelevant. (which is a good thing)
2) People may not feel like responding to my long page of questions again.

So, help me put a finger to the wind and judge whether this would be worthwhile at this time. If I did this questionnaire again, could we get enough respondents to make it worthwhile? Would everyone answer the questions quickly and accurately, so I don't have to badger people about it? It's always possible that we just won't find any patterns at all, though I do believe we would.

Back in March, 2006, when the storm was brewing which led to my first spreadsheet, I was sitting on a very solid system. I rarely had any kind of problem at all, and never catastrophic. I did the spreadsheet because so many people were hurting, so many were leaving, and I needed to find the answer for my OWN peace of mind. But I had a hunch: I had not updated my drivers in quite some time. Why? Because I actually HAD updated them, but immediately my DP setup had gone crazy, so I KNEW it was the driver setup. I dumped those drivers and went back to a previous set. All in the space of about an hour. Over the next couple of months, I watched as everyone else started reporting the kinds of craziness I saw during that one hour before I restored my former drivers.

Fast-forward to today. Once again, I haven't updated drivers in a long time. I suspect that we may be sitting on the same sort of problem again (drivers). The odds of that being the case are probably 50% or less, but that's at least one thing to look for. On the other hand, I recently installed a plugin that crashes DP at least once an hour. So, I remove it until the developer sends another beta. My system is solid until I install that plugin. The developer also programs some of the most popular audio plugins out there. He says you would not believe how much time and effort goes into fine-tuning a plugin for each DAW. It's not just DP. But it does show that a plugin can crash my "rock-solid DP" predictably and inevitably, so my system is only stable as long as I am not using an offending plugin.

We may be repeating ourselves here, exactly 3 years later, or it may be that we find something entirely new. But I hesitate to embark upon such a project without full support from the forum and/or a little help with all the data entry, should there be a flood of participants. And by the time we're finished MOTU may have given us an update, as they did 3 years ago, rendering the problems irrelevant for anyone who updates.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really want to do this, but I'd probably do it if enough people were supportive and willing to do their part. That mainly means answering the questionnaire promptly, which requires a bit of research on your own systems, but it would be nice if one or two people with Excel would take a share of the questionnaires and do some data entry. We need at least 30 people, and hopefully many more, to make this meaningful. Are there that many people using DP 6.x who are willing to participate? We need non-problematic reports as well as those with problems. If you have no significant DP problems, then your report will be necessary as part of the control group.

That's enough talk for now from me. (if you're still reading this) Let's have a pow-wow and see what the consensus is. Leave me out of the equation, because I meant it when I said I don't WANT to do it, but I WILL. Just base your judgment on your opinion of the seriousness of the situation. If you don't think we need it, please tell me if you'd participate if most people DO think we need it, or if it's just not something you're interested in spending time on. It's all up there in the poll.

Thanks, and good luck to all,

Shooshie

[waxman]

The only problem I am having seems to be Amplitube in a stereo mode... and sometimes after shutdown I get a DP 6 unexpectedly quit. However I will be glad to help in anyway possible. I am starting by praying for this to not be a pain for you...

[toodamnhip]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
"After reading all problems related to DP 6 over the past 8 months (or whatever it has been), I have yet to feel confident enough in a trouble free system to upgrade and have remained at an earlier version of DP"

[buzzsmith]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
"After reading all problems related to DP 6 over the past 8 months (or whatever it has been), I have yet to feel confident enough in a trouble free system to upgrade and have remained at an earlier version of DP"

That's the box that I would check.

Buzzy

(Thanks for taking the time to set up the poll, Shooshie)

[dave pine]

+1

[twistedtom]

DP6.02 has not been crashing and runs fine but the MIDI drag and drop for toontrack EZdrummer is not working right. I make drum tracks in DP6.01 then move to DP6.02.

[waterstrum]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
"After reading all problems related to DP 6 over the past 8 months (or whatever it has been), I have yet to feel confident enough in a trouble free system to upgrade and have remained at an earlier version of DP"

That's the box that I would check.

Buzzy

+2

[Frodo]

Shooshie:

My biggest concern is about you. I admire your dedication and desire to help, and no mistake. But gathering and compiling all that info all over again? Heck-- I felt sorry for you in 2006 but admired you then for your tremendous willingness to follow through on it.

I'll tell you this: I'll participate in any helpful way I can.

[Shooshie]

Shooshie:

My biggest concern is about you. I admire your dedication and desire to help, and no mistake. But gathering and compiling all that info all over again? Heck-- I felt sorry for you in 2006 but admired you then for your tremendous willingness to follow through on it.

I'll tell you this: I'll participate in any helpful way I can.

There are some real-life circumstances which may prevent me from doing it at all. (sudden family issues that popped up only yesterday, and may require travel and taking care of someone for a while) Too soon to tell. But whether I do or don't, something interesting came from the poll alone: the people without significant problems in DP 6.02 are actually in the majority. Maybe it's not as bad as things sound. Anyway, I'm going to give the poll 10 days, and then I'll see where I am with this other matter, and then we'll decide. Thanks for the offer. There's been another offer, too, so this could actually be done very quickly with 3 people entering data into Excel. We probably would only have about 10 or 15 responses apiece to enter, and that part really doesn't take that long if the spreadsheet is already created. Anyway, thanks for the offer, Frodo. You know I appreciate it!

Shooshie

[philbrown]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
"After reading all problems related to DP 6 over the past 8 months (or whatever it has been), I have yet to feel confident enough in a trouble free system to upgrade and have remained at an earlier version of DP"

That's precisely where I'm at with it. I have DP6 installed on a secondary VI system, but wouldn't wouldn't even consider depending on it for make-or-break deadline work on my main machine- at least where things stand now. Since I know I likely have conflicts with various plug-ins with DP6 - Intel (like Spectrasonics for example) I haven't even really tried to walk through that minefield yet. If I really thought DP was stable (and I don't) I would trudge across that tundra and sort out the plug/driver issues but it's just not worth it at this point. Plus the GUI hurts my eyes = even less motivation.

So I guess I'm not a valid candidate to participate in this poll, but would if I had something to contribute. And thanks in advance to all who do and especially SHOOSHIE!

Cheers
Phil

[stephen1212b]

buzzsmith wrote:
toodamnhip wrote:
YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
"After reading all problems related to DP 6 over the past 8 months (or whatever it has been), I have yet to feel confident enough in a trouble free system to upgrade and have remained at an earlier version of DP"

That's the box that I would check.

Buzzy

+3 I believe is the count

[richardein]

Shooshie,

I'm with Frodo. If youd do the survey, email me how I can help.

r

[TOD]

buzzsmith wrote:
toodamnhip wrote:
YOU MIGHT WANT TO ADD
"After reading all problems related to DP 6 over the past 8 months (or whatever it has been), I have yet to feel confident enough in a trouble free system to upgrade and have remained at an earlier version of DP"

That's the box that I would check.

Buzzy

+3 I believe is the count

+4

[gearboy]

+5.

However, I'm still on 4.61 because of the stuff that was haywire in 2006. I have not upgraded since 2005.

Shooshie, thanks for taking the time once again to help out this community.

Jeff

[Frodo]

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really want to do this, but I'd probably do it if enough people were supportive and willing to do their part. That mainly means answering the questionnaire promptly, which requires a bit of research on your own systems, but it would be nice if one or two people with Excel would take a share of the questionnaires and do some data entry. We need at least 30 people, and hopefully many more, to make this meaningful. Are there that many people using DP 6.x who are willing to participate? We need non-problematic reports as well as those with problems. If you have no significant DP problems, then your report will be necessary as part of the control group....

I'll add a bump to this thread because I really think it's important in the spirit of all things positive and constructive.