Clean Monitor Volume Device Question

[Frodo]

I'm looking for an analog monitor controller XLR I/O, and it must have *clean*, passive analog pass-thru.

Bottom end price range is the PreSonus Central Station, which I've been talked out of. Top end is the Dangerous Music D-Box, which is way more than I need.

Anyone here using the Coleman Audio M3PH or the TB4?

Thoughts?

Thanks.

[Frodo]

Problem solved.

http://www.spl-usa.com/index.php?id=127&L=1

[Tonio]

Or passively ... taa daa...

http://www.goldpt.com/sa2x.html

I just ordered a DA10-all digital controlled toggle-that'll take a while to used to I almost went for volume 2, and recently got a Mpatch 2 ha ha what a joke

T

[Tonio]

Frodo, the volume 2 is not passive !! The Goldpoint is !! they have a 2 channel unit too.

Now the arguement of passive or not will cometh ....

T

[Frodo]

Frodo, the volume 2 is not passive !! The Goldpoint is !! they have a 2 channel unit too.

Now the arguement of passive or not will cometh ....

T

No, no argument from this hobbit. Long story, but the necessity for "passive" became less important than I thought it would be.

Always great to hear form you, T !

[davedempsey]

Frodo, the volume 2 is not passive !! The Goldpoint is !! they have a 2 channel unit too.

Now the arguement of passive or not will cometh ....

T

No, no argument from this hobbit. Long story, but the necessity for "passive" became less important than I thought it would be.

Always great to hear form you, T !

Please explain... I thought that a passive or rather 'relay' , non component based and therefore more transparent unit, such as the Central Station would be preferable

[BradLyons]

This is a topic that is quite important, actually. This is something that has always been an important issue, but one that never truly surfaced until going ITB with DAW systems. You see, even analog consoles need to have a good monitor bus---many don't. This is one of the things that I've always found intriguing are those buying analog mixers to get "summing", but then that mixer they buy doesn't have the headroom to truly support so much headroom. This isn't as much of an issue these days, but to a degree it still is.

As to the topic of use on hand, it IS important. You spend all of this money on mics, preamps, the converters getting in and out of your DAW, and more importantly.....the TIME it takes to record, edit, and mix. Do NOT cut corners on the monitoring aspect. We typically think of monitoring for the mixing part of music creation, but it's just as important as the tracking side----how else do you decide what mics to use, where to place them, where to record within the room, etc without first listening to the signal through your monitoring chain? Some of us spend a lot of money on monitors, so why cut ourselves short on the box that connects them to the DAW? THIS IS why passive is so important.

The DBOX that was mentioned is a wonderful solution, I'd not say it's overkill at all. Personally, I thought that until I used it----that 8-channels of summing in there really DOES improve things for about 95% of the users out there. On my Apogee Ensemble with DP and Logic, it was quite noticeable. On my ProToolsHD with the 192I/O, it was still noticeable although not as significant. But the monitor section in that thing is clean, VERY VERY CLEAN! Personally (for now), I have a Presonus Central Station and really like the quality of it. IMHO, it's the most affordable box out there that is passive and doesn't affect the audio like other boxes. You asked about the Coleman unit---that is a GREAT box if you simply need monitor control without any "frills". Their stuff is clean as can be.

I said I'm using the Central Station for now.....truth is both of my studios have one, but one of them I do plan on adding a DBox at some point, it's just low priority for me right now. I can't comment on the SPL stuff, haven't used it. But I have tested MANY products from the $99 pricepoint to $5,000..... the Central Station is probably the best affordable solution while the DBox is one of the most affordable, professional solutions.

[magicd]

I use and like the Mackie Big Knob.

Dave

[Tonio]

Frodo, the volume 2 is not passive !! The Goldpoint is !! they have a 2 channel unit too.

Now the arguement of passive or not will cometh ....

T

No, no argument from this hobbit. Long story, but the necessity for "passive" became less important than I thought it would be.

Always great to hear form you, T !

Please explain... I thought that a passive or rather 'relay' , non component based and therefore more transparent unit, such as the Central Station would be preferable

Thanks for Brads interjection.
Passives' are only as good as the pot/attenuator built in. A stepped attenuator(Goldpoint and others) is said to be best due to having no issues with the sound field roaming left /right depending on the passive controllers' pot position Most passives use a potentiometer. True stepped attenuators do not have have that issue-though I would say if it is quality build. Then the impedance issues involved therein takes a role.

Actives's are only as good as the same issues as a passive, to include the electronics involved.

I have'nt used the Goldpoint nor the SPL unit.

The build quality would be more important than the passive/active issue no? TC has a neat desktop controller for $99.



T

[Frodo]

This is a topic that is quite important, actually. This is something that has always been an important issue, but one that never truly surfaced until going ITB with DAW systems. You see, even analog consoles need to have a good monitor bus---many don't. This is one of the things that I've always found intriguing are those buying analog mixers to get "summing", but then that mixer they buy doesn't have the headroom to truly support so much headroom. This isn't as much of an issue these days, but to a degree it still is.

As to the topic of use on hand, it IS important. You spend all of this money on mics, preamps, the converters getting in and out of your DAW, and more importantly.....the TIME it takes to record, edit, and mix. Do NOT cut corners on the monitoring aspect.

Hey Brad, thanks for chiming in. Please understand that I have not disclosed the totality of my situation, so when I said that the situation was not *as* important, I didn't intend for that to mean that great monitoring was *not* important. I agree-- it IS important.

I think my statement was probably closer to yours when you said that getting a DBox was not your highest priority. That doesn't mean that it's not important. It just means that there are other solutions that will enable me to get back to work sooner than later without breaking the bank right now.

I'm getting mixed information. Three people (off the forum) have the Central Station but four others ragged me for nearly buying it. Their reasons were consistent in that they "felt" that I could and should do better.

Here's a bit more info:

I'm about to drop some serious bean in about an hour on an SSL Alpha-Link AX with MADI Xtreme-64. I need the AX model because I need the ADAT ports to sustain compatibility with other gear. I had my heart originally set on an Apogee AD-16x with a Benchmark DAC1, but since my "bean bag" is not as large as it once was (especially during tax time and in this general economy), the SSL solution offered 64 I/Os instead of 16. (I'm also outfitting two Macs for VI work). There was the Rosetta 800 which also has ADAT ports but it's only 8 I/Os for the same or more than the SSL.

I should also say that what I've been using for interfaces and why they need to be replaced once and for all is a delicate topic I'd rather not delve into-- because it's a long and sad story that could cause this thread to veer off in the wrong direction. Let's just say that after buying three interfaces from the same company I found them ALL to be defective almost right out of the box. The manufacturer used to fix these things for me, but they have declined to address the issue even for a fee. This was a strange turn of events. How to address this issue is now moot because I've been forced to pursue other avenues.

So I decided to do this in stages, but my conundrum is that all stages really ought to be done at the same time. That brought me to the issue of monitoring with the SSL interface.

The DBox and the Coleman units get high marks from everyone across the board. I just wasn't quite ready to drop $1400+ on it, for as relatively "affordable" as it is. Central Station seemed like a reasonable solution until I got the "beat-down" on it. It's so funny that people either love this box or they hate it. No one I've talked to has had an opinion down the middle.

The DBOX that was mentioned is a wonderful solution, I'd not say it's overkill at all. Personally, I thought that until I used it----that 8-channels of summing in there really DOES improve things for about 95% of the users out there. On my Apogee Ensemble with DP and Logic, it was quite noticeable. On my ProToolsHD with the 192I/O, it was still noticeable although not as significant. But the monitor section in that thing is clean, VERY VERY CLEAN! Personally (for now), I have a Presonus Central Station and really like the quality of it. IMHO, it's the most affordable box out there that is passive and doesn't affect the audio like other boxes. You asked about the Coleman unit---that is a GREAT box if you simply need monitor control without any "frills". Their stuff is clean as can be.

I said I'm using the Central Station for now.....truth is both of my studios have one, but one of them I do plan on adding a DBox at some point, it's just low priority for me right now. I can't comment on the SPL stuff, haven't used it. But I have tested MANY products from the $99 pricepoint to $5,000..... the Central Station is probably the best affordable solution while the DBox is one of the most affordable, professional solutions.

At the end of the day it boils down to that old bean bag again. I wish I had $15k to do everything I want and need right now, but that just ain't possible. I do need some kind of monitor management, and something will be decided very shortly. I'm pretty sure at this point that the $1k+ attenuators will have to wait, unfortunately.

Fortunately, there seem to be some more cost effective solutions in the interim.

Thanks everyone for posting!

[bdr]

I have an m-patch 2

http://www.smproaudio.com/produkte/moni ... oller.html

I'm no audiophile, and usually work with sports radio in the background but I really like this unit.

Brett

[Tonio]

I'm about to drop some serious bean in about an hour on an SSL Alpha-Link AX with MADI Xtreme-64. I need the AX model because I need the ADAT ports to sustain compatibility with other gear. I had my heart originally set on an Apogee AD-16x with a Benchmark DAC1, but since my "bean bag" is not as large as it once was (especially during tax time and in this general economy), the SSL solution offered 64 I/Os instead of 16. (I'm also outfitting two Macs for VI work). There was the Rosetta 800 which also has ADAT ports but it's only 8 I/Os for the same or more than the SSL.

woo hoo, good choice Frodo!! Do tell.

T

[Frodo]

woo hoo, good choice Frodo!! Do tell.

T

Look who's talking? Mr. Lavry himself!! Congrats on that gem of an acquisition.

Tis converter season, I guess! I'm looking forward to it, actually. The toys should arrive early next week, so that gives me a few days to gather proper cables and to gut the old gear from the racks (and get rid of any dust hiding beyond reach!). It will take a couple of days to get everything hooked up and tested, so I'll let you know how it goes in about a week.

Oh, here's something that someone brought up today, about lightpipe jitter. Have I gotten myself into trouble?

[Shooshie]

Lightpipe jitter? Doesn't ANYTHING in this universe behave predictably? Ah, that Heisenberg and his uncertainty principle. Seems we're doomed to jitter in one way or another, depending on where you look. Reminds me of something I jotted down about 21 years ago.

Quanta

The electron, like the spinning word
In the mind’s eye sits so easily:
Sinew to the atom’s heart,
Lifeblood to the machine’s vital part,
Behaves inviolably grammatically,
Its muscle seen, felt and heard.
But try to pen it’s law to book,
Examine closely; this March Hare
Defying predictability
Will dart with such agility
That spirit-like it’s everywhere,
But never where you look.
Are God’s laws in such poetry pressed?
Some things are best left guessed.
------------------------------Shooshie, September, 1988

[Frodo]

"Some things are best left guessed".

I like that.