compressing drums

[michael77]

I've been producing for years and only got into recording real drums
in the last five so I'm really playing catch up.

One trick I've heard of is to do a submix of the whole kit and run it
thru a stereo compressor and then mix to taste. Every time I do this
I get a kit that sounds like it's being phased in some way.

Is there a special way to do this? I have hardware and software
compressors so I could do this within DP or using my 02R

just a little advice please?

thanks folks

[kassonica]

What compressors were you using to do this?

[michael77]

I'm using a compressor preset in an M 2000 effects box
made by TC electronics. From my individual channels of
drums on my 02R I am using an aux send to send a signal to the
compressor and then out another channel on my 02R.

[kassonica]

Ok

If it sounds phasy it means that there is latency and as tools and DP has not external delay compensation it makes it very difficult to use external FX's.

Ttry a software one to see if you like the results and if you do then try expert sleepers latency plugin to compensate for the latency.

[sdemott]

I concur - you're getting phase anomalies because of the round trip latency of the compressed submix as it mixes with the uncompressed tracks.

You could simply print the compressed submix and then time-align it with the uncompressed tracks, if you want to keep the mix going through the 02R. Or, just mix inside DP and let it handle all the latency compensation internally.

how are the drums recorded??

I'm general not a big fan of compressing the OHs. I'll compress the individual spot mics and then bring them up to balance out the holes in the OH mix (punchier kick, snappy snare, et al). Or, if I'm gong for a real organic sound, I'll submix all the spot mics and compress the submix then mix it with the uncompressed OHs. I usually find I need to EQ the tracks individually though.

BTW, greetings from Darien.

[monkey man]

Michael77, that's four digital conversions plus the processing time on the TC unit (O2R aux send, the M 2000 in, M 2000 out and O2R return). An analogue compressor would eliminate half the conversion times as well as the TC processing time, but there'd still be two O2R conversions slowing things up a little.

If you were using an analogue desk and compressor, the round trip would be made at the speed of light or something astronomical, and I suspect this is the usual sort of setup of the big boys who employ these tricks.

[kassonica]

Michael77, that's four digital conversions plus the processing time on the TC unit (O2R aux send, the M 2000 in, M 2000 out and O2R return). An analogue compressor would eliminate half the conversion times as well as the TC processing time, but there'd still be two O2R conversions slowing things up a little.

If you were using an analogue desk and compressor, the round trip would be made at the speed of light or something astronomical, and I suspect this is the usual sort of setup of the big boys who employ these tricks.

INdeed or they use Pro tools HD which compensates for the latency automatically and seamlessly which I'd LOVE motu to implement something like this.

Do a search here for someone posted a good tutorial on using latency fixer.

[jrdmcdnld]

I hate to say it....Nuendo also does external effect delay compensation quite well.....

[jamiefennessy]

. Every time I do this
I get a kit that sounds like it's being phased in some way.

I've heard of problems with the 02r sending erratic latency offsets to the host DAW...this could be another plausible reason for the phasing artefacts......(apparently the new drivers sort this out?)

Edit
When using the tc thing, interface it directly with s/pdif... you'll probably notice nothing in the way of any phasing

when using analogue compressors...ditto what was said earlier about printing the compressed effect and "nudging" it by the round-trip latency of your 02r

Also, doesnt the 02r have a delay function......? don't know if its of sample resolution but this would be another alternative. Just send everything (except the signal to be compressed) to a buss, delay it, send the compressed signal to an "un-delayed" buss....mix them together and, call yourself Albini!

[therealbigd]

as i posted somewhere else, one of my favourite tricks is to record the skins and the cymbals seperately. then you can apply good compression to the kit whilst keeping the dynamic range of the cymbals.

[resolectric]

. Every time I do this
I get a kit that sounds like it's being phased in some way.

I've heard of problems with the 02r sending erratic latency offsets ...

This is true.

I don't know about "erratic" but digital consoles induce latency.
It comes with the territory (read: digital territory).

If you don't send your signal through the 02R your "phasing" problems will, at least, change.

[therealbigd]

hmm could it be a setup thing?

i have a Sony DMX-R100 and suffer no latency issues with that at all. We used to have an O2R and never experienced it there either...

[resolectric]

hmm could it be a setup thing?

i have a Sony DMX-R100 and suffer no latency issues with that at all. We used to have an O2R and never experienced it there either...

Weird.
Every digital system has latency.
Even hardware digital synths have latency.
Everything digital has latency.

[therealbigd]

we looked for it, as you asked.

put the direct out from pro tools 1+2 on one set of monitors
desk out main mix on the other set

nothing noticable....

[Tritonemusic]

INdeed or they use Pro tools HD which compensates for the latency automatically and seamlessly which I'd LOVE motu to implement something like this.

That's for sure. I'm surprised that MOTU hasn't done this a long time ago.