Mic preamps

emanman · Post by **emanman** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:12 am

I've been using the built in preamps on my 828mk3 to somewhat good effect as friends and fellow musicians are happy with their mixes. Been recording classical portuguese folk music, so its been mainly various types of guitars/mandolins and vocals. I have a M-Audio Solaris that I've been using for vocals and a Shure SM81 for the instruments. My question is with my budget of $600 at the moment, if there is a preamp that would make a difference in the quality? I've been looking at the FMR RNP that a lot of people seem to rave about. I'm going into Alesis M1 Mk2 monitors, so would I really notice anything from the MOTU's built in preamps? Also later down the road I was thinking about getting the Mackie Onyx 800R lightpiped in so I could have the option of doing more mics. Any opinions on the quality of those preamps, it seems as if its a hit or miss with people. Fairly new to the whole recording, done a mess of reading. I'd like to take some courses down the road as I am liking the whole production stage of it. Thanks.

davedempsey · Post by **davedempsey** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:14 am

"My question is with my budget of $600 at the moment, if there is a preamp that would make a difference in the quality?"

No, I don't believe there is.. The Motu pre's are as good as you could hope for without paying a lot of money. There will not be a significant improvement with medium priced pres. I paid $6k AUD for a stereo channel of high quality valve pres - from Peach Audio in Coogee- - my Apoggee pres were nowhere near as good and only marginally better than my motu pres.

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:15 am

I disagree, because sometimes the answer isn't what you think it is. Some pres will make a significant difference, but you can't truly hear it because something else. Huh? Well....clean gain pres don't show you the full improvement unless your mics and converters all that full difference to come through where a tube pre can add so much more warmth that it makes a big difference no matter what you plug it into. There are (3) pre's in that range I can say are a huge improvement over what's in the 828mk3:

Focusrite ISA One
Universal Audio Solo610 and the Solo110

airtime · Post by **airtime** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:32 pm

The FMR RNP preamps are more than pretty good, in my opinion, and you can get a pair of them for less than your $600 budget. I've been using a pair for more than a year now, and they deliver what what i want. I don't have any really exotic preamps to compare them with, but against my Focusrite Platinum Voice Channel, and the BLA mods on my 828 mkII, they hold their own. A couple of my own home built pres sound a bit better, but maybe that's my ego talking, and my own designs are not for general use anyway. I just want to endorse the RNPs because they're simple, rugged, convenient, flexible and do a great job with any mic you feed them.

Wayne

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:43 pm

I've never used the FMR RNP but I've heard great things about them. I do have two of their RNC's and I like them a lot.

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:13 pm

Number one would be the BLA mod on the 828. It makes a huge difference. Plugging a good pre into a stock 828 is going to get you nowhere, other than adding a bit of character from the pre. But as far as clarity and detail goes, you won't be hearing it until you upgrade the A/D of the 828.

For a clean pre, I'm happy with the DAV BG-1, which comes directly from the builder in the UK. It's more like $800 for a 2-channel unit, but well worth it. It's clean, but not sterile - sort of a 'juicy' kind of clean. The RNP, on the other hand, is a little less 3D sounding, for lack of a better word. I sold my RNP/RNC a while back, after the BLA mod on my Motu interface cleared up my sound and let me hear what my gear really sounded like.

A couple of more options: the Safesound P1 mic pre/compressor is a $600 mono unit with a clean mic pre and a totally transparent compressor. The compressor is auto-release - perfect for vocals and bass, and not much else. But for those uses, it is stellar. The mic pre is clean, with a little dip in the highs, right around the sibilance frequencies, so I only use the pre for calming a bright mic. There is also a limiter at the end of the chain, and a headphone output.

The Blue Robbie tube pre is worth a look. It's clean, with no overdrive capabilities, but it seems to add a bit of a sheen to vocals, as well as beefing up the low end a bit. You can find them used for 500/600. It's an odd looking tabletop unit, like something out of Startrek, but the sound makes up for the strange futuristic design.

For ribbon mics, the AEA TRP is great - 84 db of gain, which comes in quite handy when putting a ribbon mic in front of an acoustic guitar. Considering that I've had the AEA TRP gain maxxed out on acoustic instruments, can you imagine trying to use a ribbon mic with a normal pre in the 60db gain range? Ain't gonna happen. The sound of the AEA is super-clinical, which is just what you want with most ribbon mics. (If you don't have any ribbon mics yet, you're missing out on a whole new spectrum of warm, natural sound.)

If you're a DIY'er, there are several options for assembling your own kits: Seventh Circle, Flying Fish, Hamptone, and a few others I can't think of at the moment.

Good luck.

emanman · Post by **emanman** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:00 am

I've noticed some people talk highly about the BLA mod. Given that they do the A/D upgrade I think I'll actually give that a shot first before getting any preamps. I've never had a chance to play around with a ribbon mic, but that is something that's on the list as well. What an expensive hobby!

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

PhireAlly · Post by **PhireAlly** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:47 pm

Hi Guys,
I have to agree with Brad .... Here's my experience .....
I have an Avalon AD2022 Mic Pre and for a long time wanted to get rid of it because I couldn't hear it's value ..... until I started to listen through the DA's of my RME ADI-2 .... WOW!!!
In terms of tone it didn't sound that much different to the Pre's on my PreSonus FireStudio 2626, but that's where all the similarities end.
The 3D soundstage, fullness and imaging produced by the Avalon, could not be heard in the FireStudio's Pres. Is that to say that the FireStudio's Pre's are not good? NO! On the contrary ... they are quite good, but if you want to hear the quality of a MicPre (especially Solid State) a good DA for monitoring will reveal things that lesser DA's won't.

Blessings
PhireAlly

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:19 pm

Sytek MPX-4Aii, my friend. $900 for four stellar clean channels with gain for days. I bought mine used on TapeOp's Buy/Sell/Trade two years ago for $600. I absolutely love it. Brilliant preamp, Made in the USA, etc.

Jeff

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:27 am

One bummer is that the BLA mod isn't available for the 828mk3 yet. When I asked, it didn't seem like it would be too soon either, from the gist of the email.

dpg4macman · Post by **dpg4macman** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:22 pm

I'm not a "pro" however I have worked in several recording studios as an engineer and I have been recording in my home studio for many years and I now write and record as a hobby. I've used several mic preamps and I have been turning to a cheep but very effective unit by Studio Projects. VTB-1 ($129.00) Works well, quiet and a great DI. If you're on a low budget this one is highly recommended.

dpg4macman

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:44 pm

If I'm not mistaken, BLA don't do the preamp Mod anymore on MOTU gear...

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:52 pm

Dwetmaster wrote:If I'm not mistaken, BLA don't do the preamp Mod anymore on MOTU gear...

I've heard this on Digi PTLE gear as well, apparently it "takes too long". Ummm well last I checked, you DO IT RIGHT.

mikebeckmotu · Post by **mikebeckmotu** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:41 pm

dpg4macman wrote: Studio Projects. VTB-1 ($129.00) Works well, quiet and a great DI. If you're on a low budget this one is highly recommended.
dpg4macman

I'll agree. I have two of them, and they offer a lot for the money. Nice to have variable impedence for different mics, too. Good DI, too, like you mentioned.

gearboy · Post by **gearboy** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:36 am

From Black Lion's site:

Pricing

MOTU 1296, 24i, and 1224: $325 for analog only
MOTU HD192 :$350.00
MOTU 896 and 896HD: $250 for analog only -no preamps. *We are no longer offering the additional preamps on the 896 due to time constraints.
MOTU Traveler: $285 for analog only
MOTU 2408, 828 and 828mk2: $295 for analog only
MOTU 24i/o: $595 for analog only
*please note- We do not offer the modification for the Ultralite anymore.
Contact us to schedule an appointment

I have a modified 828mk2 that sounds terrific. It has the old clock/analog/preamp mod that they were offering in 2005/2006.

Jeff