Looking for a new 88-key weighted control/synth...which one?

[BradLyons]

All great information. Personally, I do lean towards the Roland RD700SX (and now the new GX coming out) but it's more of a digital piano with a cool synth focused more on traditional sounds where the S90ES is a full synth with a great piano sound. If you want a great action, lots of good sounds along with the traditionals and a good piano sound---The S90ES really is quite hard to beat. We have nearly every keyboard setup in our showroom at Sweetwater--currently I don't have the S90ES on display but when it's there, it is a fun one to play! If you don't need a sequencer, sampler (hey, there's MachFive V2!) or workstation (hey there's DP!).....yeah, this thing rocks!

[npatton]

+1 on the S90ES. I love it. Patch names are NOT included in DP,

Try the Motif ES list... I bet it matches!

Hey! This looks promising! The first handfull don't match (which are the pianos, which makes sense, as the S90ES is a different sample from the Motif), but the rest look familiar. I'll take some time and verify, but I think you just solved my biggest headache with the S90ES!

Thanks!
n

[Panda123]

Check out the CME VX8 controller, best grand piano action ever.

[HCMarkus]

+1 on the S90ES. I love it. Patch names are NOT included in DP,

Try the Motif ES list... I bet it matches!

Hey! This looks promising! The first handfull don't match (which are the pianos, which makes sense, as the S90ES is a different sample from the Motif), but the rest look familiar. I'll take some time and verify, but I think you just solved my biggest headache with the S90ES!

Thanks!
n

Sweet! I used to have an S90 (pre-ES - it was destroyed in my fire), and noticed that the patch is my Motif looked very similar. Anyway, I'm sure DP6 will have the S90ES list included.

[mhschmieder]

Panda,

Can you compare the VX8 vs. the UF8, or did you ever try that one? There has been inconsistent information on whether it uses the same keybed or whether it is an improved/enhanced one.

Keyboard Magazine's shootout was published too soon to include the VX8 vs. the older UF8 (which I owned for awhile). The UF8 and the Studiologic VMK188plus have different strengths; both are great keyboards.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

PC2/Orch is great and even the lowly PC-88 (which you can find used for about $400 or so in great condition) is a good choice. I still travel with the PC88 and have the PC2 in the studio. The arpeggiator is useful (sometimes...) and there are a lot of sounds (samples & synths).

There doesn't seem to be any easy way to select GM sounds from the keyboard on the PC2 (the 88 can) and that's not too big a problem, but it would be nice when I need a quick gunshot (I just hate it when I need to carry my Smith & Wesson to a gig). Both have mondo controllers and both have excellent piano feel keyboards. I'm a pianist as well and feel was my 1st consideration.

[daniel.sneed]

I think I remember that PC88 came in two flavours :
PC88 (semi-weighted)
PC88X (hammer)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I think I remember that PC88 came in two flavours :
PC88 (semi-weighted)
PC88X (hammer)

I don't think it was a weight difference, but rather an extra soundcard in the mx (that's the version I have). Perhaps there was a different keyboard in the more expensive model.

[Tripi]

You know..... i spoke to M-Audio right before NAMM, and the very friendly rep i was talking to told me that they were about to release something that might make me wait to replace my Keystation88. Now, I know how bad the action on the KS88 is, and I think M-Audio realizes that this is the main gripe of it's users. He couldn't tell me outright what it is, but with a little "Yes" or "No" questioning it appears to be a re-issued Keystation 88 with a proper keyboard feel.

I've always felt like if M-Audio could take the very functional shell they came up with, and combine it with Yamaha's keyboard action it would make a great workstation keyboard. Maybe they will get it right this time. Who knows.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Actually, while the Keystation 88 does have a very springy feel, I am more dissatisfied with it's controller implementation. It continually sends Ctl #7 and creates havoc in the process. There is no memory so whatever you program is not saved and you have to start from scratch.

I do like their speakers, but after my experience with their FW Audio, slow driver support (still no Leopard Drivers for the FW series?) and controllers, I would never buy another M-Audio product again until they are clearly thinking their stuff thru a little... make that a LOT better. Put another way: you don't get what you don't pay for.

[Tripi]

There is no memory so whatever you program is not saved and you have to start from scratch.

MLC - are we talking about the same keyboard? The Keystation Pro 88 has onboard memory to save user configurations. I have several saved in mine, and they stay there even if the keyboard has been turned off for a while. I'm not sure why you always send CC#7..... but it sounds like something is stuck. Anyways - the keyboards are all plug n' play, so you shouldn't need any drivers for the USB.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

There is no memory so whatever you program is not saved and you have to start from scratch.

MLC - are we talking about the same keyboard? The Keystation Pro 88 has onboard memory to save user configurations. I have several saved in mine, and they stay there even if the keyboard has been turned off for a while. I'm not sure why you always send CC#7..... but it sounds like something is stuck. Anyways - the keyboards are all plug n' play, so you shouldn't need any drivers for the USB.

Actually, you left the "Pro" out of your earlier post, so I assumed you were talking about the Keystation 88 (which is AKA the es). So I guess we're not talking about the same keyboard...

[FMiguelez]

.

What did the guy on black did to the guy on white to make him so angry in your avatar??

I'v had many keyboards, and to me, nothing beats the Fatar. I've played at a friend's studio the fully weight key one, and it feels terrific.

[PrimeMover]

I've seen quite a few pianists fall in love with the Kawai electric pianos as MIDI controllers. They have some of the best touch I've ever played on.

But I've actually grown quite comfortable with my Alesis QS8.1, but it's more of a "you like what you've played on for a while" kinda thing, I know a lot of people don't think much of them. But I will say that they're every bit as good (from a feel perspective) as any Korgs or Kurzweils I've played on, even if its synthesis is nothing to write home about.

But whatever you do, stay away from Fatar. That is, unless you want to get serious carpal-tunnel, and leave bruises on your fingers. That weighting is just insane! I dunno what kind of piano Fatar is trying to emulate, but I've never played on anything that hurt that much! I've played quite a few heavily-weighted concert grands that feel just fine, Fatar controllers feel like you're pushing on lead weights supported by 10-pound test springs.

[mhschmieder]

Well, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the weighting is less critical than the escapement and the landing, in terms of avoiding fatigue. Fatar makes many different actions, most of which I hate (including the ones for the keyboards you mentioned liking so much, from Alesis and Korg ). I sold my Kurzweil PC2X for this reason. The new Kurzweil PC3X will have a different action.

Only Fatar's top-end "Grand Touch" action, which premiered on the Studiologic VMKplus series a year or two ago and which AFAIK is not used by any synth manufacturers yet, has a soft landing. Actually, the General Music Promega3 had a custom action that was commissioned from Fatar and which may have become the "Grand Touch" action now in use -- it had a soft landing, unlike the Promega 2. The PRP700/800 have an in-house action developed by GEM (General Music) that is a bit lighter in its weighting.

I do agree that the VMK188plus has the heaviest action I have ever tried outside of Kawai's, but I adjusted to it very quickly due to its smoothness and soft landing. Thus I never got fatigue or pains, as I do even with the semi-weighted Fatar action used on the Nord Electro series (which I didn't buy for that reason, along with disliking the button-style "drawbars").

The CME UF-series is a bit noisy (the VMKplus series is whisper-quiet) but slightly easier for repeated notes, and has a soft landing and good escapement. Not quite as stable side-to-side as the VMKplus. I remain very curious whether the VX8 improves further upon this design, as that was my original choice before I gave up after it was delayed so long and after it became clear I wouldn't be able to try one in a store first. Also, CME remains a horror show when it comes to bug reports -- although the software and drivers do seem to finally be stabilising for most products.