Building a starter DP system

dalevin · Post by **dalevin** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:04 am

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. I'm an aspiring film composer who's trying to build a starter system on a $2000-2500 budget. I know that won't be anywhere near optimum - I just need something to start with.

Would the following setup work?

Mac mini (I already have a monitor) with the faster processor option and 2GB of RAM running DP; an external hard drive running Vienna Special Edition (or should that go on the Mac mini?); an audio interface

Do I need MachFive 2 to start with? And if I do, should I put it on the Mac mini or on the external hard drive?

Do I need a special sound card?

I have an M-Audio Radium 49 keyboard controller. Will that be compatible with this system?

Thanks so much,
Dan

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:43 am

Yes the mini would work, get the one with the super drive. Get a fire wire or usb2 interface. There are a few VI••™s in DP to start with not world class but a start.

Spikey Horse · Post by **Spikey Horse** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:41 am

I think mac minis still have a RAM limit of 2GB - if so I would be tempted to suggest getting iMac or Macbook both of which can go up to 4GB RAM (as long as they are the more recent models)

This will eat into your budget I know and maybe they will be out of range but I'm just thinking of VSL .... running orchestral samples like that means you'll always want more RAM so you can have as many instruments/ articulations loaded up as possible.

Adding more RAM is the cheapest way to improve the performance of any system for audio work - you might find having a 2GB limit frustrating once you really get into working with VSL!

If you are primarily running VSL and other software instruments and not recording live music as a priority (or at least not yet) then I would suggest iMac / Macbook with maxed out with 4GB RAM and a cheap interface without all numerous ins/ outs you won't be using.

BTW buy any RAM upgrades from crucial.com - don't buy RAM from apple they are a rip off for RAM!!!! Check out the price differences for yourself!

Hope it works out whatever you go with

ps a good way to get a mac that is a bit out of your budget is to keep an eye on the refurbished models - go to apple store and look for special deal / refurbished macs (the list of refurb macs for sale is updated all the time but tend to be also updated in bulk once a week - you can call your local online apple store number and ask them what day that is then lie in wait for the bargains .....

... although make sure you 'know your product line' - macs can appear to be the same when they are in fact slightly different versions from a bit further back along the line of mac evolution - sometimes it makes little difference, sometimes it does and is less of a bargain than it seems - but there are still good bargains to be had. Not sure if any of that makes sense!)

twistedtom · Post by **twistedtom** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:15 am

Spikey horse has a good point. My next computer will be a Mac pro.
Also you will need a interface that dose MIDI( I don't lnow your controller's out puts). And you will need a good mic. or 2. Oh yes your keyboard should work fine.

lindymack · Post by **lindymack** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:08 pm

I just got a Mac Mini for my studio. 2GB, but no VIs. It's all audio from live players or external synths. I do have a large (300GB) hard drive, so my audio files are separate from the DP application.

I've been using a Mackie Onyx firewire mixer to connect the real world to the virtual one, and the Mini is accepting it without a hiccup.

I like the idea of more RAM if you're going to be using VSL. So while the Mini works for me, I'm not pushing it to the limit, either.

Lindy

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:50 pm

dalevin wrote:Do I need a special sound card?

If you're only working inside the box to compose, The audio output from the computer might be enough for you. If you are inputing from the real world then something like these might do the job.
an ultralite, ( http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite/ )
a firebox ( http://www.presonus.com/firebox.html )

dalevin wrote:I have an M-Audio Radium 49 keyboard controller. Will that be compatible with this system?

I've had TERRIBLE result with my Radium 61. it will work ok through a MIDI interface but the USB drivers for Macintosh are not that great. The velocity curve is less than good also. But if you only need to input notes I guess it can do the job.

Whatever you do, ebay might be your best friend...

Or your worse enemy if you have a bad experience...

dalevin · Post by **dalevin** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:51 pm

Thanks to everybody for the information!

If I went the Mac mini route, would I put MachFive or Vienna Special Edition on the external hard drive?

Or, if I went for a bigger/better Mac, would I just put all the programs on that computer and forgo the external hard drive?

Thanks again.

Dwetmaster · Post by **Dwetmaster** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:48 am

dalevin wrote:Or, if I went for a bigger/better Mac, would I just put all the programs on that computer and forgo the external hard drive?

Make Sure you have several HDs into it. You MUST separate your projects' drive from your System Drive. The ideal situation Is:
One HD for System
One HD for your projects
One (or more???) (Fastest you can afford) HD for your VIs.

Have fun...

sourgrapes · Post by **sourgrapes** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:05 am

dalevin wrote:Thanks to everybody for the information!

If I went the Mac mini route, would I put MachFive or Vienna Special Edition on the external hard drive?

Or, if I went for a bigger/better Mac, would I just put all the programs on that computer and forgo the external hard drive?

Thanks again.

i would say definitely yes

(seconding dwetmaster and being slightly redundant)

IMO, in order for a decent system to work up to its potential, you need the most RAM you can get (as everyone has already stated) and 3 separate fast (at least 7200) drives

one for your DAW+OS(which can be your internal HD), another for your VI's+libraries, and the third for all your audio files...

...and then there's the backup drives, but that's another story

get as much of the above as your budget will allow and you won't be sorry

cpu power is important, don't get me wrong, but a bit overrated if you ask me - i've got a dual 2.0 ppc (not bad, though certainly not blazing compared to what's out there now), but it's coupled w/ 7.5g RAM and two nice glyph drives daisy-chained FW and then going SATA to the G5, and i have no problems doing just about anything i want

ze3b · Post by **ze3b** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:11 am

I've got a starter system you can have for a whole lot less than that.

My G4 MDD (rackmounted with a marathon kit) so you can stick in a rack case and close it up for quiet tracking with a 424 card, three hard drives, running perfectly. It started to slow down when I added 12 or so instances of Altiverb but only then. Currently running OSX 10.4.8

No problems of any kind.

Motu 1224, Motu 2408, and a Motu 308

There is an issue with the 2408 mains output but it works fine other than that. Either use headphone out (same output) or 1224 outs which is a perfect unit.

I don't use this gear any longer since going to a MacPro and DM3200, fireface, more outboard etc. So I would love to see someone who could put it to good use pick it up.

I used to run Machfive, ivory, tons of samples, altiverb all without a hitch. (unless you go crazy with altiverb. Print track? hello?)

Ze3b@mac.com

dalevin · Post by **dalevin** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:26 am

Again, thanks so much for the advice!

For the external hard drives, is firewire connection a must (as opposed to USB)?

What external hard drives would you recommend (are Glyphs the only good ones)?

And how do you daisy-chain external hard drives?

Thanks!

papageno · Post by **papageno** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:22 am

dalevin wrote:For the external hard drives, is firewire connection a must (as opposed to USB)?

FW is not a must but highly recommended. It is faster and more robust.

sourgrapes · Post by **sourgrapes** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:21 pm

is would say FW is a must also

i also recommend looking into eSATA, which on paper is faster and has a larger bandwidth than FW800 (requires installing card w/ port into your computer, however, which is another expense)

daisy-chaining is only possible if your hard drive has more than one port

for example, my 2 Glpyh GT050Qs have USB 2.0, FW400, FW800 and eSATA ports, so I can connect them using anyone of those configurations in any combination

but any drive with mulitple ports should work much in the same way...

and no, Glyphs are not the only good ones, but IMHO they are damn good and really quiet - plus they have very friendly and thorough data recovery should one of their drives crash or stop working

dalevin · Post by **dalevin** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:22 am

Hi all,

Again, thanks for all the great advice!

Would the M-Audio Fast Track USB audio interface be appropriate for my setup? And is an audio interface necessary at this stage (probably a dumb question, but I don't know enough to know if it is)?

Also, would I need a MIDI interface? And if so, would the MOTU FastLane be the way to go?

Thanks!

lindymack · Post by **lindymack** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:55 pm

dalevin wrote:Would the M-Audio Fast Track USB audio interface be appropriate for my setup? And is an audio interface necessary at this stage (probably a dumb question, but I don't know enough to know if it is)?

Also, would I need a MIDI interface? And if so, would the MOTU FastLane be the way to go?

Thanks!

Regarding the MIDI interface: If you're going to use a MIDI keyboard as a sound source, you're likely to want your computer to play back your performances. A MIDI interface will be the only way to do that, whether you use your keyboard or a rackmounted synth.

I like the FastLane for simple set-ups. I also have a MIDI Timepiece A/V USB for multi-channel MIDI playback (common in rackmount synth set-ups). The MTP-A/V allows me to filter MIDI information to specific channels, which the FastLane cannot do.

I have a TC Electronic Konekt8 audio interface for my set-up, when I'm away from my studio. I use a firewire mixing board (Mackie Onyx) at home. The Konekt8 is awesome. I'm not familiar with the quality of the M-Audio product. Someone else may have better info for you on that.

Lindy

MOTUnation.com

Building a starter DP system

Building a starter DP system

Re: Building a starter DP system

thanks and a couple of follow-up questions

Re: thanks and a couple of follow-up questions

Re: thanks and a couple of follow-up questions

external hard drives

Re: external hard drives

interfaces

Re: interfaces