A Beatles Virtual Instrument

[zed]

BFD2 promo videos are advertising that they now have Ringo Starr's Ludwig Black Oyster kit as part of their new 55GB of content. Also saying that it was recorded at George Martin's Air Studios in London Hmmmmmm. I wonder what it sounds like.

You can see a couple of tradeshow videos under the tradeshows heading on the upper right hand side at:
http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=12&tab=51

Apparently it will be a $200 upgrade for existing customers.

A video showing the making of BFD2 (with footage inside Air Studios) is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=12&tab=60

[Frodo]

a $200 upgrade

Hmm-- I've YET to get BFD, let alone contend with a $200 *upgrade*.

Interesting though, if I were torn between Mixosaurus (a strong contender) and EZ Drums, the mere mention of anyone else doing anything Beatley with a plugin is enough to at least capture my attention in a BIG way. Part of it is timing. There was a day when all I was looking for were the best 808 and 909 samples. Those days are happily over.

Since then, I guess you can say it's been about going for "the one after 909"!

Wouldn't it be ironic if BFD nailed Ringo's kit in a way that leaves Fab Four in the dust? If nothing else, BFD is working for the most part, and that goes a LONG way in the hearts of users. I'll need to investigate just "which" kit of Ringo's is included. "She Loves You" is quite a bit different from "Come Together", although both are Ludwig.

On some level, I get the feeling that if other developers catch wind of public interest in Beatle VIs that they could feasibly step ahead of EW's brilliant concept which is apparently marred by PLAY's awkward gestation and weening. Can this already be subtely in action with BFD? Sampling a Ludwig kit is one thing, but touting it as Ringo's kit brings a whole new meaning.

Sorry to be a tad harsh about it- but this thread approaches a year old with a lot of enthusiasm hanging in the balance. Fab Four is a masterful idea and an ingenious concept with a lot of painstakingly brilliant sampling preparations. But after 10 months of waiting and six months of experimenting with updates it remains a woeful late bloomer.

I still don't quite trust it enough to get going on Colonel Chrispick's Pyschedelic Interplanetary Guide to the Galaxy Thingamajiggy project, but I'm liking the whole BFD track record more and more for a lot of reasons beyond its basic offerings. The jazz bundle is of particular interest, and if this Ringo kit is as well done as some of the other kits BDF has to offer, I may have to set aside that AC30 for a while longer!

How could EW let BFD beat them at their own game? I've been pulling for EW since day 1, now this! Maybe I'll just enjoy the Help! DVD in the meantime.

[zed]

Wouldn't it be ironic if BFD nailed Ringo's kit in a way that leaves Fab Four in the dust?

That probably won't be hard to do, because BFD includes a lot more velocity layers... but that doesn't mean that they will have captured the real magic of Ringos Beatle sound. I don't think EW did either... but I do think extra velocity layers would help to make a more useful Ringo simulation kit... we can add our own effects and extra processing to tweek the sound in a more Beatley way, if necessary.

I'll need to investigate just "which" kit of Ringo's is included. "She Loves You" is quite a bit different from "Come Together", although both are Ludwig.

Apparently they acquired one of Ringo's kits, which he actually played (presumably during the Beatle era, but not necessarily).

Keep in mind that all the drum samples in the EW Fab Four VI were recorded using the same drum kit... from early Beatle kits to the "Come Together" blanket toms. I don't suppose that BFD2 will include blanketed toms, but you never know. They would have been wise to do that, and also to record the snare with multiple tunings and dampings.

It will be interesting to hear the results. I would be MOST interested in better management of resources and the ease of building kits. Both those things are lacking in the current v.1.5 of BFD.

I may have to set aside that AC30 for a while longer!

Don't delay!! Get a bloody amp, hobbit! You will enjoy playing the guitar a whole lot more. <strangling Frodo smiley>

[Frodo]

Don't delay!! Get a bloody amp, hobbit! You will enjoy playing the guitar a whole lot more. <strangling Frodo smiley>

How I've dreamed of watching HDN and Help! back to back with my Rickenbacker plugged into an AC30 and cranked on "11" just to jangle along with Lennon.

As a matter of decadent principal, one of these days I'm going for the "Lose That Girl" microphone!!



"We need money, first."
~John Lennon

[zed]

As a matter of decadent principal, one of these days I'm going for the "Lose That Girl" microphone!!

You can get mics equipped with U47 diaphragms, which will get you pretty close to that sound, for under a $1000. But I'd definitely love to get myself an authentic vintage model one day. Would like a vintage C12, as well.

[Frodo]

As a matter of decadent principal, one of these days I'm going for the "Lose That Girl" microphone!!

You can get mics equipped with U47 diaphragms, which will get you pretty close to that sound, for under a $1000. But I'd definitely love to get myself an authentic vintage model one day. Would like a vintage C12, as well.

"I'll make a point of taking her away from you-- what what I-- yeah."

Just kidding, of course. I'd just finished one of the most annoying installations ever-- and had Help! on the brain. Installation took about 5 hours, so I'm completely fried.

Speaking of Help!-- "I think it's todaaaaaaay, yeah!" You know the film-- that's where Frodo and Ringo go to Mt. Doom to give some Ring back to Sauron Kaili.... or something like that. Somehow, the hobbit ends up in the Bahamas.

[emulatorloo]

So guys, here we are on page 69 -- did you ever get that PLAY thing to work?


--

[monkey man]

I found a song by a singer whose voice is golden just like those Pyramid strings. I sure wish I had this vocal tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X91izMzSpeA

Yes-- with a little work, this kid could go somewhere in the world if he buckles down and pays his dues!

LOL!

Yeah, make him pay.
Make him suffer for a few decades.
A few years' starvation might help too.
Oh, and let's not forget illness. I recommend the plague for a stint.

So guys, here we are on page 69 -- did you ever get that PLAY thing to work?

Yeah... wassup wit' dat?

Sooo far beyond any help I'm aware of guys.

You've still got it bad.

[emulatorloo]

Speaking of youtube, this looks like it was a really fun day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-9ERUSL1Aw

--

And speaking of that young singer, I get a big kick out of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdsRYyTDEN8

--

[Frodo]

So guys, here we are on page 69 -- did you ever get that PLAY thing to work?


--

Did *we* ever get it to work? LOL. We're at the mercy of the developers!! I've been wondering if *they* ever got it to work.

My feelings are mixed-- it works better in Logic than in DP, but even there I can only give it a C+ or B- in functionality. Unlike the forthcoming PLAY interface for EWQLSO, they recommend using one instance per sound for Fab Four.

I find Fab Four a little heavy on the processing side and a little light on the sounds. It's nice to have those Mellotron fluts for Strawberry Fields, but how many times can you put those to work? I understand that they were working on an expansion pack, so lets see what they come up with. Fab Four currently focuses more on sounds from 1966 onward, again-- heavily processed. But there is quite diversity of sounds from the early days that could prove to be much more usable even in a non-Beatle context were they ever to be included.

I'm sure it all could be a lot worse, but it definitely needs to be a little better. It's a great concept yet to be fully realized.

There is a new mp3 demo up-- a take off on Lucy In The Sky, Mr. Kite, I Want You-She's So Heavy, Blackbird. It's really not bad as a demo-- and at least proves that a pretty full Beatley mix can be pulled off with it. Listening to the Blackbird-ish section near the end, the ear is at once challenged to reconcile the high quality of the samples with the typical shortcomings of sequencing a convincing guitar performance. For something like this, RealGuitar is more successful and could probably be easily put into a mix with other fx processors to fit other sounds in Fab Four.

[zed]

So guys, here we are on page 69 -- did you ever get that PLAY thing to work?

The release of PLAY v.1.0.021 certainly did resolve some issues and improve the overall management of system resources, so it is a more workable product now. But it still hasn't managed to fit in seamlessly. It has a way to go before you would want to add it as a permanent fixture in your DP projects and add it to your template. But it's getting there.

There is a new mp3 demo up-- a take off on Lucy In The Sky, Mr. Kite, I Want You-She's So Heavy, Blackbird. It's really not bad as a demo-- and at least proves that a pretty full Beatley mix can be pulled off with it.

Thanks for pointing that out Frodo. I enjoyed listening to that while I made my coffee. You must have loved their use of the screaming girls. Surprisingly, I did too. If I hadn't known what that was, I would have just thought it was a some cool processed effect and wondered how they did that. But it really sounds good when used like that... although the unfortunate thing is that now everybody could use it like that... it could quickly become cliche. I guess we'll have to be creative and mix it with something else to give a more unique and slanted tone.

Listening to the Blackbird-ish section near the end, the ear is at once challenged to reconcile the high quality of the samples with the typical shortcomings of sequencing a convincing guitar performance. For something like this, RealGuitar is more successful and could probably be easily put into a mix with other fx processors to fit other sounds in Fab Four.

Agreed, but not sure RealGuitar would do much better with that kind of guitar style. Now a REAL guitar, maybe.

That reminds me... Those friggin' RealGuitar people. What a STUPID name for their product. They have already caused me confusion and annoyance because when I record ideas and sketches I say what I used and that it was done with RealGuitar, and then I go back to the sketch a month or two later and I'm not sure if I meant RealGuitar software or my real guitar. It is confusing as hell, and my only main issue with their product. I'm serious... that was not a good idea. So I have made a new policy for my own sketches and recordings... I am ALWAYS going to refer to the RealGuitar software guitar as the unRealGuitar. That way I will not be confused when I listen back to one of my demos in future. And it really is unreal, right?!

[Frodo]

[Agreed, but not sure RealGuitar would do much better with that kind of guitar style. Now a REAL guitar, maybe.

Well, of course few things, if any, are more convincing than a human being playing an actual instrument well in real time.

That reminds me... Those friggin' RealGuitar people. What a STUPID name for their product. They have already caused me confusion and annoyance because when I record ideas and sketches I say what I used and that it was done with RealGuitar, and then I go back to the sketch a month or two later and I'm not sure if I meant RealGuitar software or my real guitar. It is confusing as hell, and my only main issue with their product.

Certainly, they only intended give the ear as much a challange as is possible with a VI that offers a few more performance details than most guitar samples might, but I'm sure they had no intention of upsetting their users.

I'm serious... that was not a good idea. So I have made a new policy for my own sketches and recordings... I am ALWAYS going to refer to the RealGuitar software guitar as the unRealGuitar. That way I will not be confused when I listen back to one of my demos in future. And it really is unreal, right?!

Two solutions-- call it the "RG-plug"...

and/or... your own vote in favor of just using an actual guitar is a well-advised winner every time!

[Shooshie]

Speaking of the Mellotron, did anyone ever come across the schematics showing how those things worked? I found some years ago in a keyboard museum online, but I can't find it now. I did find some others, but they aren't as clear. When you see how they work, you might agree with me that they are either sheer genius or one-half-genius/one-half-idiocy. This was the day before tape loops, so I guess we can forgive them for not devising a series of 8-track type loops that can play continuously, can be reprogrammed with replaceable cartridges, and give you a choice of 8 sounds. That's how it SHOULD have been done. But it wasn't.

The mellotron had a single loose tape for each key, looped through a spring contraption that kept the tension on it as it dropped down into a "collection box," and when you released the key, the spring pulled the tape back up to its starting position! Anyone who has experienced recording tape's inner desire to crinkle, jump its tracks, and tangle up in the machinery will just gag when they see how a mellotron works. Rick Wakeman is said to have poured gasoline on two of his Mellotrons and set fire to them in a field. Emo (Keith Emerson, to the uninitiated) had one ready for a concert, but it broke before he could even play it, so he never touched it again. They were frustrating contraptions that couldn't survive the road. On the other hand, they were the closest thing to a sampler in their day. (but sound quite unlike real instruments or anything else) Unique. Ingenious. Lunacy.

I have a link that will take you to John Paul Jones saying essentially that when he sat down to play the Mellotron in Stairway to Heaven, he rather held his breath because he never knew what was going to come out (or NOT come out).

The Mellotron (with John Paul Jones video)

The Mellotron: How it works.
Keyboard Museum: The Mellotron

Enjoy the links. Technology did have its dark ages.

Shooshie

[Frodo]

one-half-genius/one-half-idiocy

I love that description!!

I was about 12 and got involved in a summer program that catered to kids who had "more than a fleeting interest in music". Music programs in schools were already on the decline and any remaining programs treated the disinterested the same as those who were half serious about it.

Anyway, one of our field trips was to a recording studio (my first ever!). The guy who owned the studio was one of those half-geniuses/half-lunatics. I'll never forget that day. This guy's entire studio was entirely homespun built from scratch-- He claimed that his gear was better than anything you could buy on the market due to reasons that were WAY over our heads.

The plays was a veritable junk yard, but he had 20 speakers on shelves all around the control room and went into a rant about why Quad was no good and that his goal was to invent true three-dimensional sound, as he called it. Half the studio was jammed with beat up modular synths from top to bottom. Wires and cables were strewn everywhere. What a mess!

But he had a mellotron.

I immediately asked him about it because the first thing that came to mind was "Strawberry Fields Forever". He was only impressed with me for a moment. At that point it was like a fire ignited in his eyes-- the guy was scary. He went into a 10-minute lecture about how the piano was on its way out and how the mellotron was the future-- how samples would take over for good or ill-- how analog tape would be a thing of the past-- how everything would eventually go to microchips.

The guy was brilliant and he was half right. That is to say that he was also half crazy and half wrong!!

But I got to play three notes on the mellotron that day-- the first and last time I'd ever encountered the instrument.

It was a marvelous concept-- one of THE most improbable instruments to have been invented for its time. In fact, I think it may have already been on the way out because of newer developments already in progress at a distant company later to be known as New England Digital.

[zed]

Speaking of the Mellotron...sound quite unlike real instruments or anything else) Unique. Ingenious. Lunacy.

For the unfamiliar, the quickest way to hear a whole score of these interesting sounds, only involves a visit to this page:
http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=220

You can have them all by purchasing the Squids Tron Collection. And not a chance that the tape will jam or get twisted in the machine.