Recording Guitars and Bass

[sliceone]

This is probably a stupid question, but I have a 828mkII, and was wondering, do you need a DI box to plug an electric guitar or bass directly into the 828? I know the inputs on the front say Mic/Guitar, but since its just a preamp, I still have no clue really.

I also have a tube preamp that I use for micing sometimes as well, and I've seen talk about people having to use DI boxes with their standard mic preamps.

Help, guitars and bass into DI Box or just directly into the preamp?


Thanks

[Dwetmaster]

If you like the preamps on your 828 you can plug it it directly. if you prefer the sound of your amp Mic it. Since I've BLA'd my 896HD, I tend to plug my Bass directly in it and I've had more than satisfying results.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21547

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... ight=ampeg

[BallPein]

the mic ins on the 828 will work fine for direct guitar / bass signals, as will your mic preamp. try them out and see if you like the sound. I love the sound of bass through a tube mic pre, and use one live (bass > tube pre > amp). Just use usual caution / common sense when trying them out together, and start out with all your volume / gain knobs dialled low.

The problem, though, is that the sound you record this way will will not sound like your guitar or bass sound played through an amp. So you can either use software modelling to emulate the amplified sound, or "reamp" by playing that recorded signal out of your DAW and into bass or guitar amp and mic'ing the amp. (as far as the bass goes, you can probably get away with just some EQ and get a useable result, but I'm a bass player and more finicky; DI guitar sounds like absolute crap though, imho, and requires treatment).

Reamping can be finicky because guitars and amps have different signal levels than preamps and whatnot. For example, I can DI my bass and reamp it through my bass amp without problem, but my bandmates guitar amp sounds like total shite when you a playback a DI signal through it. I think this has to do with the nature of bass vs guitar signals, but moreso with a difference in how tolerant the amps are to different signal levels. My bass amp is solid state and has a -20db pad switch which helps it accept line level signal, but my guitarists amp is a tube amp with no pad. Newer amps have pad switches or separate line level jacks. The beauty of reamping is you can take your time twiddling knobs to get just the sound you like, and even apply plug in effects to your guitar tracks before shooting them out to your amp.

The best route is to try it out and see if you like it and just play around with different solutions. There are a couple of software amp modelers I know of, but they both sound gimmicky and phoney to me, unless you're going for a fairly generic sound.

One way to test if your amp will accept a line level 'reamp' signal is to plug your guitar into your mic preamp and then plug your preamp into your amp... if it sounds okay then you'll be in business reamping.

[SixStringGeek]

My bass player came by last week and just jacked into my BLA's 828 mkII. It sounded good. A little fiddling with parametric EQ and a hint of chorus and it sounded PHAT. I'm sold.

[zara_drummer]

I like to direct the bass, but I also like the sound of a mic'd cab...espectially with a more percussive bass player. Mic of choice for me is a D112.

As for guitars, I've never been a fan of re-amping or modeling for that matter. I've never really had any luck re-amping.

Most of the guitars I've recorded come thru big ol' tube amps...No modeling can match a Mesa, or a correctly dialup Blue Voodoo.

I use an e609 and a D112 on the cab for any dirty sounds...For cleans, I'll replace the D112 with either an Oktava MK-012 or a MK-319.

I've not had enough experience with acoustic guitars...but when I have, I've place a large condensor near the vent hole as well as a small condensor. I want to experiment more with acoustics, but for what I record its not always needed.

[splatterbass]

guitars, AT 29HE off axis at the speaker dome.
SHURE 57 beside it, same placement just rotated a bit to get same relative placement.
AKG D112 straight in just off the side of the speaker dome.

catches a good representation of what the amp sounds like with little eq, but can really be messed with.

bass, tube preamp into line split ( tube pre adds some nice warm fuzzy to the sound ). one straight in. the other to the amp.
amp mics, AKG D112 straight on just off the dome.
AT 4051 just off dome and 30 degrees off axis.
AT 3035 just off the cab about 2 feet ( aprox ) but in phase to catch the whole cab sound, with horn.

mess with placement a bit to get that phat sound.

good mic placement on an amp will do more for getting the sound you are looking for moreso than plugins.

[BradLyons]

IMHO, I firmly believe the BEST bass sounds always come from going through a good DI instead of miking a cabinet. The problem with miking is you're just not getting what you think you're getting, even though you think you're getting it. HUH?!? Well, bass resonance is quite a fun thing---NOT! You don't just hear the bass, you FEEL IT and it creates more than what's really there. Likewise, going through a cabinet compresses it in a way that kills the tone. Now with that said, you can certainly get a great tone---but that limits you on the engineering end later. By recording direct, you have more harmonics and that key here is HARMONICS to work with. If you're lucky enough to have a good EQ and compressor, all the better. It's about the TONE, tone comes from the instrument....then the player....and then your front-end. Sorry, but the DI on the 828mkII will never give you that.

[chrispick]

You know, if you want a little bit of cabinet sound and you're not playing at really loud volumes, you can feed bass through a DI and a decent-enough, cheap solid-state guitar amp (like a Peavey or something). The DI will pick up all the bottom you need and the guitar amp will help give the kind of definition and speaker compression you otherwise miss. Just keep the amp turned down enough to avoid bad speaker quaking.

[mikebeckmotu]

I was going to add exactly what chrispick said. I always got pretty good sound from a DI blended with the miked output of a little 10-watt Marshall.

[HCMarkus]

Give me the great player and we'll get a great sound regardless of the gear unless the gear is flat out broken.

[Phil O]

Give me the great player and we'll get a great sound regardless of the gear unless the gear is flat out broken.

This is so true - for any instrument - but it is especially noticeable with bass. I had a fellow come in with a Squire bass and I thought he was going to be a hack. He turned out to be a very accomplished musician and we got some really great bass tracks with just that Squire and a DI.

Phil

[chrispick]

Great bass playing is often underappreciated.

Even though I'm a guitar player, I love the bass and the way it shapes a song.

[James Steele]

Great bass playing is often underappreciated.

Yes, but NEVER by me. Not just the playing but in rock music, it's all about the drums and bass. Also, the right bass part can really give a song life, but a boring, unimaginative part will just kill it.

[BradLyons]

Great bass playing is often underappreciated.

Even though I'm a guitar player, I love the bass and the way it shapes a song.

And hard to find.... I mean, chicks really dig the bass players over guitar players in high-school, right?

[Dwetmaster]

And hard to find.... I mean, chicks really dig the bass players over guitar players in high-school, right?

I started to play bass because the Guitar chair was already filled in school, I've was never more popular than the guitar player...
But Fame came later!!!

these days it's all about the drums.