Mixdown Mystery: Low Volume on Hot Mixes

[Douglas I.]

Looking for advice, as I keep experiencing a volume issue with my mixes. The work in question is created with preexisting samples and VIs, no live performances or micing. While working on music, all seems fine, strong levels, good balance of high and lows etc. I bounce my tracks to disk, listen back and the results seem great. Then I leave the DP5 world to compare my mix to CDs I own with similar instrumentation, genre, etc. I find iTunes is a quick and dirty way to reference and compare my mix to others, and always, the same issue arises: my mix down will sound softer, volume -wise, as much as half the volume as stuff I compare my mixes with. I also listen using Peak (light version) to AIFF versions of my stuff against well-known, well engineered material. The result is similar. My material is metering at the maximum and sounds like it••™s half the volume of my reference music.

I get a little refief using DPs processing plug-ins, such as Master Works Compression and Limiter, some on bass tracks (Trilogy) before final mix, mostly after mix down, and before a master mix. It••™s easy to over-work and fatigue my songs applying too much processing. I normally don••™t exceed a 2 to 1 compression ratio, and try to keep compression and limiting as transparent as possible. Normalizing isn••™t ideal when working with really dynamic compositions as it likes to make everything louder and less dynamic. Using Peak••™s change gain function don••™t help much as I••™m already close to clipping.

I••™m assuming by watching levels, and listening that the challenge is in taming the low end (Bass and kick). My work isn••™t overly aggressive, it••™s pretty mellow: grooves, with bass lines and some ambient/ world textures.

I never seem to like the results of too much compression on bass, and low-end kick and percussion. Yet unless I can solve that frequency range of music, the whole piece is noticeably quieter when compared to reference works by various artists I compare it to.

The issue isn••™t limited to my current set-up, I had the same challenge in the olden days of a Pro Tools NuBus system, bouncing to DAT tape and back into the computer. I••™ve read a bundle of good articles over time regarding mixing techniques, and always try to mix from the source, to prevent major issues at the final stages.

My studio was built from scratch with specific room dimensions, sounds absorbtion, corner bass traps (all inspired by REAL-TRAPS), so I••™m listening more accurately than ever.

I can live with the issue, just turn up the volume when listening to my own stuff beyond the DP environment - and all sounds pretty good. But it points to something that is consistently NOT being addressed correctly.

Is there a suite of really great plug ins that can better address what I assume is too much low end going without good compression? The sounds are clean and high quality from the source, so it••™s something to do with my limited system. Again, I••™m not even covering microphone usage, as it••™s a different ball game, and for this application, outboard gear may not be the answer. This is a struggle that is absolutely the result of increasingly high quality sounds at the hands of an artist/ engineer whose skills and tools are far more limited than the sounds I••™m composing with.

Doug I.

G5 2x 2.0G, 3.5G RAM / OS 10.4.10 / MOTU 828 MkII / DP5.12 / MACH V 2.01 / Spectrasonics RMX, Atomposhere, Triolgy, / etc.

[chrispick]

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/

Test drive it for free.

And here's a good primer on mastering from the same folks:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/o ... gGuide.PDF

In short, without hearing your tracks, it seems like you want higher RMS levels without perceivable peak clipping or frequency diminishment. Ozone is an inexpensive, entry-level one-stop tool for such needs.

[3rdpath]

i'm also a big fan of ozone. i prefer it to my waves mastering plug-ins.

just a tip should for ozone...it's way too easy to over limit, widen and eq with it. just a dab of this-n-that will work wonders on your mixes.

it's major bang for the buck.

[Douglas I.]

Thanks for the ideas. I was also looking at an ad for a set of Bias plugs. Anyone have them? I wonder how all these compare to the included Master Works compression and limiting plug-ins that DP5 provides. Night and day difference? More powerful, flexible, better sounding (one would hope).

it's really bass low frequency that takes over the mixes that brought me to post this. The other instruments, strings, piano, percussion end up suffering. I've never invested in software-based dynamic plugs and I'm hoping it will bring me better results than MOTU's choices.

[chrispick]

Thanks for the ideas. I was also looking at an ad for a set of Bias plugs. Anyone have them?

I use Bias Peak for mastering, but rely on other third-party plugs for limiting/mastering tracks. Primarily, I use UAD-1 Precision EQ, Multiband Comp and Limiter, although I often throw a smidgen of PSP VintageWarmer and iZotope Ozone for some flavor.

The UAD stuff is really great, but comes with a price premium. If you can afford it, go UAD. Best software comps around, in my opinion (plus a lot of other excellent plugs).

http://www.uaudio.com/products/uad-plug-ins.html

I wonder how all these compare to the included Master Works compression and limiting plug-ins that DP5 provides. Night and day difference? More powerful, flexible, better sounding (one would hope).

Of all the third-party software limiters and compressors I've tried -- and I've tried a bunch -- all of them worked better than DP's MasterWorks versions on master buss tasks. The MasterWorks EQ is great. The other two Master Works plugs will work in a pinch, but there are notably better a la carte choices available.

Beyond the iZotope site, also check out:

www.pspaudioware.com
www.wavearts.com

Both have good-quality, not-too-pricey limiter/comp options.

The nice thing about iZotope Ozone is it can be a one-stop mastering plug. It has EQ, saturation/excitation, limiting and other useful tools in one interface. And many of them are multiband-linked-and-capable.

it's really bass low frequency that takes over the mixes that brought me to post this. The other instruments, strings, piano, percussion end up suffering. I've never invested in software-based dynamic plugs and I'm hoping it will bring me better results than MOTU's choices.

My experience: The bass frequency problem you describe is usually the result of a few things. Here's some input:

1. Sub-audible low frequency action. Try rolling off frequencies under 20-to-30 hz. That usually does a lot for definition. Those sub-lows can suck the energy out of a track. And they can add harmonics that'll muck the sound. The MWEQ is great for this.

2. Room acoustics. Most untreated home studios have problems with standing bass waves and early reflections. The result is you overcompensation in your mix, making the bass fuller and the high-end shriller than they need to be.

3. Multiband compression. This is sort of a last resort fix, but it can work if you have a good multiband comp. Essentially, you split the frequencies up (as few times as possible to avoid phase weakening), then apply more compression to the low end. The better solution is to get your bass under control at the mix rather than at the master.

Hope this helps -- or at least gets you thinking.

[splatterbass]

i have heard the same thing from a bunch of guys in the learning curve.
if you are happy with the mix. then its time to master.
trying to get that "mastered" sound from a raw mix is banging your head against a wall.

i prefer to get a really good mix where everything can be heard and the mix really helps push the song, once i am there then its time for mastering.
a few of my friends do similar kind of work, so if i recorded it and mix it i hand it off to someone else to master. as well they will hand their work off for me to master.

a fresh set of ears on the project can push the levels without loosing the dynamics of the mix.