VI Latency confusion: Vintage Warmer II

swiftness · Post by **swiftness** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:16 pm

I added the 20ms look-ahead and still no latency.

Here is my process:

First, I created two Stereo audio tracks and one Aux track. Then I imported a drum loop onto one of the stereo audio tracks. Next, I bus the track with the drum loop to the Aux input (at 0db). I inserted the MW Limiter on the Aux track. I set the output of the Aux track to the input of the second audio track. When I hit record the loop is recorded on to the second track and no latency is introduced.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:30 pm

So, you're not actually using "Bounce To Disk." You're recording it in real time. That might be the reason we're getting different results.

This was my method:

••• Audio track with "Output" set to "Bus 1-2."
••• Auxiliary track with "Input" set to "Bus 1-2." Auxiliary track has MW Limiter on it (Lookahead set to 20.00 ms.). Output is set to "Main Out 1-2."
••• Bounce To Disk (adds new track to Sequence)

Result: Latency

P.S. Larry, I don't mean to hijack your post. It just seems that this may be related.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:46 am

Hey, I'm bumping this because I think this is of great importance and I encourage you to try the test to see if this is just my problem, or a more generalized problem. It's certainly important...I'm surprised at the lack of interest and participation. Please, stop talking about Logic for two minutes and help me (and yourself).

I know there are many people here using Vintage Warmer 2, MW Limiter, etc., on Auxiliary tracks for drums, etc. If delay compensation is not working properly, can you appreciate the importance of this test?

I want to bring this issue to MOTU but it would help if I wasn't the only one trying these tests.

TOD · Post by **TOD** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:12 am

I'm right here with you 666. I've noticed some latency issues with VW II, but they seem to fix themselves with stop and start.

I haven't heard it occurring any differently in the aux buss verses an effect on the stereo track.

I also get this with my UAD stuff when I first instantiate a plug. It seems to tighten up after stop and start.

I know, no help. But I am reading.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:25 am

Dig it, Tod.

I've tried a few MOTU plugins and got mixed results. MW EQ seems to be sample-accurate. MW Limiter with Lookahead on max bounces way late. "Compressor" was close but still late. This only seems to be a problem of I have these plugins on the Aux track and I'm using BTD. I've always been a proponent of BTD and I'd hate to see it go south.

Also, sorry to everyone if I sound bitchy about this. I'm just trying to get a grip on what's really happening.

larryf · Post by **larryf** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:21 pm

I'm currently (in real time, as I type this post!) fussing around with VW2 and aux tracks to see what happens. I believe there is some, but not 49.3 ms worth. So it's confusing, for the moment.

jlaudon · Post by **jlaudon** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:25 pm

Since DP5, I've had problems with VW (esp vs. 2) on aux tracks (for example, I would have a couple ac gtr tracks, bus them to an aux, put VW on the aux track, and latency...), even in playback, not even BTD. So, I just put VW on audio tracks - a bit of a hassle - I can't recall VW version 1 on DP 4.6 having this problem (I used it quite a bit on drums, all the drum tracks going to one aux track, and VW on the aux track).

larryf · Post by **larryf** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:39 pm

While we're on the topic of VW2, anybody care to comment on how they use it when on the 2-bus? I've been experimenting a lot with VW2 on the whole mix lately, and have made a generic "make it better" preset with 5 % Knee, Drive +1.5 db. speed = 40, which seems to basically work on every project. Like Ozone - hit the button, make the whole song better - but even better.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:39 pm

Not trying to be argumentative here, but I have never experienced lack of ADC on aux tracks. Maybe I've just been extremely lucky, but really, I'm not having this problem.

Maybe it's like Waves - some people are running Waves on Intel Macs as AU and things are great, others can't get them to work at all on Intel Macs, some people are running MAS Waves on PPC Macs with DP 5.12 and having no problems, others can only run AU Waves in 5.11, no-go at all on 5.12 - who knows.

Can't comment on running VW2 on mixes - I don't like any compression or anything on the master buss at mixdown - I save that for mastering later in Peak. I've really used VW2 just to add "tape saturation" to things, and a few times to make something sound like an old 60's record.

Tritonemusic · Post by **Tritonemusic** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:54 am

I've never been more confused.

Today, I opened the same projects I tested yesterday. NONE of the projects introduced latency on Auxiliary tracks. They all bounced down to sample-accuracy. What the hell is going on? My tests are very precise and strict. Nothing has changed since yesterday...AT ALL.

I'll keep trying different things to see what happens. Thanks for listening.

zaster · Post by **zaster** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:32 pm

I am also very curious about this. Anyone know if using an audio track, in place of an aux track, as an effect send, would yield the same discrepancy?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:56 pm

666 wrote:I've never been more confused.

Today, I opened the same projects I tested yesterday. NONE of the projects introduced latency on Auxiliary tracks. They all bounced down to sample-accuracy. What the hell is going on? My tests are very precise and strict. Nothing has changed since yesterday...AT ALL.

I'll keep trying different things to see what happens. Thanks for listening.

Man, that's what I'm talking about. I have projects that work beautifully one day, and I close them without saving, then open the next day -- NO CHANGES SINCE LAST OPENED -- and they are all haywire. Faders freaking out. Volumes all over the place, as if a whole kindergarten class has its hands on every fader in the mix, trying desperately to see if each one of them can hear his fader moving. Audio dropouts. Other audio playing when it should be muted. Every submaster pegged in the red.

Open on another day, and it's back to normal. This is the consistency problem I'm talking about. And no, I don't have Quicktime 7.2, though I'm suspecting more and more that it doesn't matter what you have installed. This application just freaks out now and then.

Shooshie

FMiguelez · Post by **FMiguelez** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:34 pm

Shooshie wrote:
666 wrote:I've never been more confused.

Today, I opened the same projects I tested yesterday. NONE of the projects introduced latency on Auxiliary tracks. They all bounced down to sample-accuracy. What the hell is going on? My tests are very precise and strict. Nothing has changed since yesterday...AT ALL.

I'll keep trying different things to see what happens. Thanks for listening.
Man, that's what I'm talking about. I have projects that work beautifully one day, and I close them without saving, then open the next day -- NO CHANGES SINCE LAST OPENED -- and they are all haywire. Faders freaking out. Volumes all over the place, as if a whole kindergarten class has its hands on every fader in the mix, trying desperately to see if each one of them can hear his fader moving. Audio dropouts. Other audio playing when it should be muted. Every submaster pegged in the red.

Open on another day, and it's back to normal. This is the consistency problem I'm talking about. And no, I don't have Quicktime 7.2, though I'm suspecting more and more that it doesn't matter what you have installed. This application just freaks out now and then.

Shooshie

I've also had some of that bizzare behavior a few times.
Now, that very last statement in the last sentence, coming from YOU, becomes a little bit scarrier...

dweiss · Post by **dweiss** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:15 pm

666 wrote:I've never been more confused.

Today, I opened the same projects I tested yesterday. NONE of the projects introduced latency on Auxiliary tracks. They all bounced down to sample-accuracy. What the hell is going on? My tests are very precise and strict. Nothing has changed since yesterday...AT ALL.

I'll keep trying different things to see what happens. Thanks for listening.

I just wanted to add that I have had on occasion corrupted aux tracks that don't seem to register adc. Deleting them and replacing is always the solution in my case.

zed · Post by **zed** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:42 pm

I've noticed the Vintage Warmer 2 sometimes creates a latency issue when I put it on a regular track. I haven't noticed a playback latency issue, but when I am recording onto the track (e.g. a guitar track), VW2 causes a noticable delay in the guitar signal reaching my monitors when I am playing the guitar or recording it.

This is latency occurs even if VW2 is bypassed, but then disappears when VW2 is removed from the track.

Since I haven't noticed this with most other plugins, I suspect that this is a VW2 bug.