DP Market Share? Anyone know?

[toodamnhip]

I would likke to see DP focus on ghetting itself into thbe "NOW" crowd a bit with a little hype, coolness, apple-style flare...

It couldn;t hurt

Perhaps this all could start with some cools user enablers like logic and garage band have, such pre-fabbed FX chanis for Bass-Vocals etc...

As long as PRO stablity isn;t compromised, no harm in a little pre-fab work done by DP to make 1st timers think its easier and COOLER to use..

Some user templets etc

[Frodo]

I often hear "I didn't know DP could DO that!" from people who've used it for years.

Unfortunately, along with the undiscovered cool features, the surprise also comes with some of the features that used to work which don't any more. Thanks to your insightful posts elsewhere on the forum (and a few enlightenting PM's) I'm now having to rebuild all of my templates because they and the projects created from them are crashing right and left. (That's a good thing, btw.)

As far as us geezers go who've been with this app since before v2.x, keeping us up to speed will be the first step in boosting the image. Word of mouth remains one of the best advertising campaigns since the world began. If the geezers feel as if newer versions take two steps forward and one step back and struggle to convince tech support that these problems even exist, it doesn nothing to help anyone.

And though it may be part of the process or state of the art, glitches with DP in 10.5 are not going do anything to boost anyone's image. It really needs to work well. It just does!

I was quite impressed with the speed and accuracy of MOTU's response to getting MachFive 2.01 out there, but I agree with you that this is only a temporary fix and not a long-term solution. What you reported about M5 and MSI going south is at the heart of issues that also corrupt AU-instrument templates as well; something the recent M5 update doesn't even begin to address.

I say again-- the best advertising is word of mouth-- and if us geezers are the ones carrying the water for DP, then our word has to count for something in this. If only more of the issues reported here in quantity were tackled with the same aggression that had the M5 2.01 issue appear so quickly...

[kurtl]

What we need is a list of "cool" or important CD's, Movies, TV shows etc. recorded, composed, or edited in DP. I'll start. Lord of the Rings, Howard Shore, Pete Townsend, Dream Theater, Danny Elfman Music or if you will, everything I record. From hardcore metal to acoustic things to Elvis dudes. Everyone of my clients don't care what I record them with, until I save the day (pitch editing) in someway that freaks them out and then they ask what I'm using. And then I evangelize MOTU. I use MOTU hardware, and software, DP5.12, MSI, Mach5 2 and it works flawlessly. I get paid to record and mix, not to have software problems. http://dpusers.blogspot.com/ is one site with users of DP. We should find every project we can that uses DP and MOTU stuff and tell the Lurkers that come here what has been done this great Software.

BTW my recordings are only cool or important to my clients.

[beautypill]

When did MOTU stop using the word "Unicorn"?

- c

[Frodo]

I get paid to record and mix, not to have software problems.

All I can say is "amen to that", regardless of hardware and software.

[Mr. Quimper]

What we need is a list of "cool" or important CD's, Movies, TV shows etc. recorded, composed, or edited in DP.

Add Wendy Carlos, Autechre, Graeme Revell, Don Davis, Pat Metheny, Bob Katz, Crystal Method, Prince, Leafcutter John, etc...

[FMiguelez]

.

Here are a LOT more:

http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=28565

[Frodo]

John Debney
http://www.johndebney.com/debney.php

One of my top favorite living film composers!

[Timeline]

I guess I would just like a few more of the features I have been asking for implemented so I could rave about DP AGAIN.

I still don't understand why we can't have DM in the main mixer like Nuendo does on a PC.

Some of the great shortcuts engineers fought for for decades in the SSL automation like Update to end have simply been snubbed by motu as I have asked over and over again with not even a reasonable reply.

To me the software looks old and boring graphically compared to even PooTools and is a bit lo res.

These are reasons I feel motu is hurting the app. With all that said though my result when using DP is better than my other daw although as a geezer I would hate to have to have to learn another.

There just isn't time enough anymore.

Because I have Nuendo I will likely try out the new version 4 coming out and take a listen. If it ends up easier to use and sounds better I may start taking advantage of the $1500 bucks I spent.

I do really appreciate the non dongle approach to DP also which allows multi machine usage and laptop. I think that it's one of the greatest cool things that help users to give it a try even though they aren't supposed to. I look at that this way though, if someone's going to do that they will have to buy it to get the upgrades and in the mean time they will be learning the software and saying good things about it so i think DP gains share in the end as long as the guilt kicks in they buy it as they should eventually.

[blue]

There's no question that with Logic there comes a certain Apple safety net, if you will.

I don't know if Logic users are feeling the love now. You hear a lot of grumbling these days about useless new features, compromised stability and delayed development. Despite it all, it doesn't seem like a lot of them are jumping ship.

Live? Hmm. I think the popularity of Live may have just as much or more to do with a different general focus in the world of remixing.

Live is most often used in conjunction with, not instead of a full blown DAW. Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard, for instance, use Live with Cubase/Nuendo. It's a setup I'm seeing more and more, and one I use myself (with DP of course). Nevertheless, Live is riding some huge momentum these days and has made great strides in developing the concept further. Personally, I don't want it to become a full featured DAW, but it seems headed that way. I'm surprised to hear how many people use Live as their main DAW.

But virtual instruments and the flourishing third-party plugins in general have changed the way people work with DAWs, forced physical developments of hardware, and most importantly for the sake of this discussion-- have created a new set of criteria for new users who started in after the heyday of outboard MIDI gear popularity.

It could very well be that these changes have had an important impact on what people are using and what people choose to avoid.

This is my theory too. I feel MOTU has kind of lagged behind industry trends since the days of OS9, and has not set many new ones.

Where I once thought a lack of MAS plugins were the beginning of the end, I now struggle to find this to be a factor associated with the perception that fewer people are using DP.

It's not the lack of MAS plugin support I worry about. It's the fact that so many developers beta test AUs for DP last if at all.

The truth is, I just have no idea how many people are using or not using DP. Neither am I as sure as I used to be about what factors may be impacting these numbers today vs where they might have been 10 years ago.

Me too. Just reporting what I see around me, FWIW. Film scoring was once owned by MOTU. Now I'm seeing it less and less.

[blue]

Don't be like cattle and spook at the first troll shooing you away. Or even a room full of trolls. Stick to your tools and remember that it's about the music, not the tools.

I think you're maybe preaching to the choir. Everyone here is already using DP, and probably for reasons that are not capricious. I'm not worried about losing users, I just want to see MOTU really go out of its way to keep growing the user base. When I first started making music at a computer, DP always ranked one or two in DAW shootouts. Now I'm shocked to see they sometimes don't rank at all. This news doesn't force me to reassess my decisions to use DP, but it does make me ponder all the impressionable newbies who are just getting into the game. DP could be the best piece of software on the planet, but if nobody is buying it doesn't do any of us a lot of good.

Like I said before, I don't claim to know the real numbers. For all I know, MOTU could be selling more copies of DP than ever. But those days of MOTU being ahead of the pack are over. They were slow to respond to VIs in particular, and they haven't done enough to redesign the workflow around in-the-box solutions.

[pcm]

Market share?

I run a commercial studio here in Manhattan. I'm in my 25th year now of earning my living doing this. We see a lot of outside projects, and way back, it was all tape of course (2" and adat). Over the past seven years or so, that has changed. As far as market share goes, the pro market was once 100% 2" tape, and now it is 100% Pro Tools. The change was gradual, but steady. We never, ever see stuff from pro rooms, engineers, or producers that is not PT. As far as the crowd below them (part timers, and ranging down to the bedroom-studio guys), half of them are PC, so no DP there of course. Of the Mac crowd, I'd say 35-40% are PTLE (though some are PTHD), 30% or so are Logic, a few use Garageband (exporting out of that takes some effort!), and even fewer use DP. The DP numbers are much lower than they used to be. Here in NYC, DP market share has slipped to very nearly zero. One or two DP users a year is about it. I'm sure there are other users out there, but I pretty much never see 'em. All the engineers and producers who I know personally who used to use DP, all switched to either PTLE or PTHD. And I mean all of them.

These comments are not meant to stir up anything, I am just telling you my real world experience here in the trenches of the nyc studio world. As far as the reasons for this, that is another discussion entirely.

[FMiguelez]

.

One thing that really annoys me is that 85% of the times that I look for some VI or some plug-in support specs, they dont' even mention DP.
They ALWAYS put PT, Logic, Live, even GB, usually in that order. But no mention of DP, even if it is actually supported

OTOH, SOS magazine does give DP its due place with those articles.

[Frodo]

It's not the lack of MAS plugin support I worry about. It's the fact that so many developers beta test AUs for DP last if at all.

Yup-- that falls in line with what I understand from Apogee that went down.

Also, it just takes the wind out of your sales when you read specs for some piece of hardware or software and it lists Nuendo, Cubase, Pro Tools, Sonar, Logic, and Garageband-- but leaves off DP. Grrr!! Talk about marketing and visibility, the very absence of DP mentioned in spec sheets is just as conspicuous-- and when it does appear on these lists it's almost a relief to see it.

Film scoring was once owned by MOTU. Now I'm seeing it less and less.

Turning into a geezer is more painful that I thought it would be!

as a geezer I would hate to have to have to learn another.

There just isn't time enough anymore.

LOL-- it's getting to the point where just putting one's teeth in every morning takes more time than it should. And don't get me started on the comb-overs!

Seriously, I don't want to let anything get in the way of musical productivity, including my own desire or lack of it to learn a new app. I was very close to getting Nuendo3-- was standing at the cash register and my conscience or my better judgement stopped me cold. It wasn't that I didn't want to learn a new app, but it had more to do with not wanting to learn another gaggle of potential workarounds than anything else. From the looks of things, I would have been in pretty much the same place I was with DP and yet out of pocket a bit of brass for all the trouble.

There are tons of features I'd like to see added to DP-- even a stack of features I'd like to see improved. But it all goes out the window when you're sitting in front of the computer working your face off and suddenly DP goes POOF. It's times like these when not having a vertical zoom in the Tracks Overview doesn't seem nearly as urgent as it once did.

[FMiguelez]

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LOL! Hey, Frodo. If we had been in the same room, we would've spoken at the same time.

We just posted the same at the same time here

Don't you just HATE not seeing DP mentioned? And even worse, WHEN mentioned, it's usually after Garbage Band. PPLLEEAASSEE!!!!