Processing Piezo pickups for recording?

[wvandyck]

Just wondering what folks are using to enhance the sound of piezo pickups when recording.

I'm using a 3 voice Godin LGX-SA. I know first hand (or is that first ear?) that the piezo signal will not replace the sound of a fine acoustic guitar recorded with condensers.

But at this time, space and convenience have priority.

Any suggestions or tips appreciated.

[3rdeye]

Just wondering what folks are using to enhance the sound of piezo pickups when recording.

I'm using a 3 voice Godin LGX-SA. I know first hand (or is that first ear?) that the piezo signal will not replace the sound of a fine acoustic guitar recorded with condensers.

But at this time, space and convenience have priority.

Any suggestions or tips appreciated.

I mix them with mics.

Although if I'm not mistaken, that Godin which you are talking about doesn't have a lot of resonance by itself.

Without listening to the actual sound I can't say anything else. Piezos may sound great when extremely compressed like Trevor Rabin used to do.

[oldguitars]

i have never been able to do anything other than a textural thing with a piezo pick up...

That being said, EQ to reduce quack, compression to smooth it a little, and just let it be what it is.... oh, and despite what some might say, chorus FX do not make anything sound like an acoustic guitar....

[wvandyck]

Appreciate the responses.
I guess I'm not surprised.

I wasn't sure if using something like the Boss AD-8, the LR Baggs Para Acoustic D.I., or even the Fishman Aura Acoustic Imaging Blender would uh...tone it down a little, or bring out the "acoustic" quality.

But maybe in the end, it is what it is, and some eq and compression are all that's needed.

The LGX is fairly bright sounding when unamplified. The ability to record MIDI, electric and piezo acoustic is quite a blast for a 6 stringer. I was just looking for options to enhance the piezo sound. FYI, it does sound a little smoother when I insert the PAiA TubeHead (which took me 3 days to assemble a few years ago) into the 828mkll. The unprocessed signal coming out of the 828mkll is certainly clean, but the TubeHead adds a little roundness to the sound.

Again, many thanks.

[wvandyck]

Perhaps a more eloquent solution for processing 'recorded' piezo pickups is...Match EQ. Firium in my case.

Now to 'capture' some old Donavan Leach recordings...

[rcannonp]

You might try the Fishman Aura. It's not really a modeller in the usual sense. It's designed to make an acoustic guitar sound like itself(not like 10 different other guitars). I'm not sure how it would sound on a Godin, but if you can find one in a store near you it might be something to check out.

http://www.fishmanaura.com/

[monkey man]

Perhaps a more eloquent solution for processing 'recorded' piezo pickups is...Match EQ. Firium in my case.
Now to 'capture' some old Donavan Leach recordings...

Paul White from Sound on Sound uses the Logic match EQ offering.

You might try the Fishman Aura. It's not really a modeller in the usual sense. It's designed to make an acoustic guitar sound like itself(not like 10 different other guitars). I'm not sure how it would sound on a Godin, but if you can find one in a store near you it might be something to check out.
http://www.fishmanaura.com/

They don't recommend using it on guitars for which there aren't images.

The default set of 12:
http://www.fishmanaura.com/code/getfile ... t_load.zip

The complete collection:
http://www.fishmanaura.com/code/getfile ... ibrary.zip

Fishman won't let one look at these, unless one's a customer.
Perhaps the manual will at least list the default 12 images:

http://www.fishmanaura.com/downloads/aura_manual.pdf

[wvandyck]

The Fishman looks interesting but the LGX-SA doesn't have a sound image at this time

I just fired off an email to the folks at Fishman. The intended use would be for recording. I pointed out that many folks use piezo-equipped electric guitars by Brian Moore, Godin, etc.

I'll let you know what they say.

It's kind of scarey, but I was starting to look into options for processing piezo signal when I was flipping through the 7-05 issue of SOS (after working through the DP Groove Quantize column). SOB, there it was.
Mike Beck said the results can be pretty amazing. I would agree. While it's not a total make-over, match eq does impart the desirable qualities.
Cheers.

[mikebeckmotu]

I might even be experimenting with this today! I have to do a couple rhythm guitar parts that a client wants done with acoustic guitar, and I may not be able to use acoustic today. If time permits, I may try the Telecaster or the SG and some Match EQ (with my Gretsch archtop as the target, or else another good acoustic sample) and see where it gets me.
Like flashgerkin mentioned, I did some quick tests with Match EQ and was surprised in a very good way.
I'm anxious to see how well Firium works in this manner with flashgerkin's Godin.

[Phil O]

One thing to keep in mind when recording with piezos it that most require a high impedance pre. You will degrade the frequency response if you plug it into a guitar amp or direct box. I'm not familiar with the Godin. It might have a built in pre, in which case you're good to go.

Phil

[wvandyck]

I have to do a couple rhythm guitar parts that a client wants done with acoustic guitar, and I may not be able to use acoustic today. If time permits, I may try the Telecaster or the SG and some Match EQ (with my Gretsch archtop as the target, or else another good acoustic sample) and see where it gets me.

I'd be interested hear how this works out. You have an advantage with the Gretsch

I'm anxious to see how well Firium works in this manner with flashgerkin's Godin.

I see possibilities here. I used a section from the John Williams "Spanish Guitar Music" CD as the 'source' because it was close by. (If anyone has suggestions for excellent acoustic guitar recordings that could be used as a source... please speak up!)

The sonic character of the Godin did change to be more like the classical guitar but retained some of the metallic string sound. One passage I played consisted of arpeggios. After "matching eq" I explored how an acoustic guitar eq preset might sound for better... or worse?
I found two Arpeggio Acoustic Gtr presets in the BlueTubes EQP-2B. The effect was (no pun intended) most striking on the wound strings. Pretty cool.

I have to do some more experimentation such as finding sources that are mainly strumming, single lines, or arpeggios, etc to see if that will increase the accuracy of the match.

Firium was a walk in the park. It's one of those situations where actually implementing the process is much easier than the impression formed from reading the manual. As DP doesn't have a match eq function, I ended upgrading to the RND stuff. Match eq is now a must and I couldn't function very well without Inspector XL.
Cheers

[wvandyck]

One thing to keep in mind when recording with piezos it that most require a high impedance pre. You will degrade the frequency response if you plug it into a guitar amp or direct box. I'm not familiar with the Godin. It might have a built in pre, in which case you're good to go.

Phil

Good point!
Fortunately the Godin does have a built-in preamp & eq which works well with the 828mkll.

When I first started this thread I was looking at L.R. Baggs D.I. boxes, the Boss AD-8 and such which I think are needed in the situation you describe. I'm not sure how much these devices would be of benefit in my case. Sometimes, patience pays off i.e. $$$ stay in pocket
Cheers.

[wvandyck]

Frank Padellaro from Fishman replies:
"...the input source needs to match the instrument used to create the specific image in order for the results to be predictable."

He does go on to say that "...because of the relatively null character of electric guitars, several people have reported getting really great results by mixing and matching some of our stock images with this type of instrument."

His last word of advice is to audition a unit locally.

Fair enough!